Episode 149: Colleges with Late Application Deadlines!

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Last year about this time, we did an episode on colleges with late application deadlines.  We would like to do that again today, realizing that some colleges have changed their deadlines, of course, since our episode last January.  It is amazing to me–still–that so many colleges have deadlines well past early January, even as we seem to focus our high school seniors every year on meeting a January 1 deadline for their college applications.  Apart from those colleges that have mid-January or late January deadlines, there are many colleges still accepting applications for next fall’s freshman class.  So, let’s take a look.

1. Watch Out!

As I recently watched kids getting rejections or deferments from Early Decision and Early Action applications gone awry, I wondered whether they might want to take a second look at their college list and see how happy they were with it now, given their new information.  For kids who had pinned their hopes to an Early Decision choice or to a couple of Early Action choices, even if those Early Action choices were just safety schools, a chance to take one last look at the college landscape might be just what they need.  It doesn’t mean that they will choose to apply to another college or two or three, but it might be that this last look serves as a pressure-release valve while they begin the long wait till March or April.

Let us say that there are still a lot of good colleges accepting applications.  Many of those deadlines are this month in February, but some are in March, April, May, and even beyond that.  I used The College Board’s website, Big Future, to look at a full list.  However, I found mistakes or, at least, miscommunications.  So, please double check the deadlines of any colleges that appear on any such list–The College Board’s list or any other compiled list–by going to the college’s own website, as The College Board itself advises.

Here are a few things worth noting, though I’m afraid that these points are going to be much more useful for parents with younger high school students still at home.  Let me start with the opposite of today’s topic of colleges with late application deadlines, and that is colleges with super-early application deadlines.  As I was doing the research for today’s episode, I stumbled across a number of good colleges with regular decision application deadlines well before January 1, such as December 1 for the Colorado School of Mines (see our virtual nationwide tour some episodes back for information about this excellent school known for its engineering and sciences).  So, pay attention, parents of younger high school students, before the fall of your kid’s senior year.

And, speaking of super-early application deadlines, sometimes the date given for the application deadline is actually a whole year before the year you want to enroll.  The Big Future website, under “Colleges with Later Application Deadlines,” lists the application deadline for Iowa State University, an excellent public university, as July 1.  But here is what Iowa State actually says this on its website (emphasis added):

Iowa State University operates on a rolling admissions basis. Admission of applicants for fall semester begins in July of the preceding year. Admission for other terms begins approximately 12 months prior to the beginning of the term. Admission offers are issued for a specific term and are valid only for the term specified. (quoted from the website)

Here is something else to pay attention to when looking at compiled lists of colleges with later application dates:  Sometimes the date given for the application deadline is actually for transfer students.  Or for graduate students.  For example, The Big Future website, under “Colleges with Later Application Deadlines,” lists the application deadline for Alfred University (a good private university in upstate New York, with publicly sponsored engineering and art and design programs) as August 1.  Actually, Alfred’s regular decision deadline is February 1 for new freshmen, July 1 for transfer students, and August 1 for graduate students.

And here is something even more distressing.  What comes up first on a Google search for Rollins College application deadlines is this:

Deadlines. Fall Semester Admission The application deadline for fall semester applicants is March 1 for Priority Consideration and April 15 for Regular Decision.

Application Instructions | Full-Time Undergraduate … – Rollins College


But, that information is taken from the transfer student portion of the admissions information?not that a reader can tell that.  The deadline for first-year applicants was February 1, so you would have missed it!  And sometimes that information that comes up first is from U.S. News &World Report, and it is sometimes wrong as well.

Here is another thing to remember:  Sometimes different programs or schools within a university can have different application deadlines.  Or one school or program can have two application deadlines, such as a performing arts school within a university that has one deadline for the regular application and a second deadline for the audition.

And one last note of caution:  Sometimes the deadline for scholarship consideration is earlier than the actual application deadline. For example, at Kent State University, January 15 is the deadline to be considered for freshman scholarships, though March 1 is the deadline to submit applications for the following fall.  So, if financing is an issue for you–as it very often is–then apply as early as you can (this is especially important information for those of you with younger high school students at home).

Just to underline that, here is some important information from the website for the University of Arkansas (emphasis added):

Students interested in applying to the University of Arkansas for the fall semester are urged to apply before the early admission deadline of November 1.  By applying early, students can take advantage of priority scholarship, housing, and orientation privileges. However, applications for the fall semester will be accepted until August 1. (quoted from the website)

So, the moral of the story is, pay attention and trust no list or outside organization.  Go to the college’s own website only, and read the information on that website carefully.  Let me add, that–oddly enough and for whatever reason–it is not always a snap to find the application deadline information on a college website, though I can’t imagine why. Finally, we are going to say again, apply as early as you can–regardless of where you are applying–especially because of the number of colleges that say they have rolling admissions.

2. Colleges with Late Deadlines

We want to say again this year that there is no perfect way to generalize about the colleges with later deadlines, though I have noticed–again–that quite a few of them are the branch campuses of large public universities (e.g., University of Massachusetts Lowell, University of North Carolina at Asheville, University of Texas at El Paso, University of North Carolina at Greensboro, Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, University of Tennessee: Chattanooga, University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, University of Alaska Anchorage, University of Massachusetts Boston).

Other than those, you can find great public flagship universities, small liberal arts colleges, larger liberal arts universities, faith-based colleges, HBCUs (historically black colleges and universities), single-sex colleges, specialized colleges (e.g., fine arts, maritime) –really, just about anything.  They are large and small.  They are urban, suburban, small town, and rural.  They include some selective colleges and, perhaps not surprisingly, many not-so-selective colleges.  They include colleges in the North, South, East, and West (including in our 49th and 50th states).  The truth is that your kid could find a reasonable college choice from this list of late-deadline colleges if you all started the college search today.

As we did last year, let me read you a tiny sample of colleges with late application deadlines to peak your interest.  Here are just some of the colleges your kid could apply to by February 15 (and really that should be plenty of time to pull off some of these applications, if you all are interested):

And what about March 1?  You really have no excuse not to apply to one of these, if you are interested:

And I really can’t resist telling you a few of the colleges with an April 1 deadline (which seems truly far away):

And even May 1 deadlines (yes, really):

Okay, you get the point.  And some colleges have even later application deadlines than that.  In fact, one of our favorite colleges here at USACollegeChat has a July 1 deadline:  Richmond, The American International University in London.  If your kid is not captivated with what’s ended up on his or her list or where he or she finally gets in, think again and consider how much happier he or she might be in London at a truly one-of-a-kind university!

So, parents of high school seniors, if either you or your high school senior is truly questioning the choices you all have now, it’s not too late.  Again, the options that we have just read are a small sample of colleges still accepting applications (though I think I have probably read you a lot of the academically better options). If you and your high school senior are intrigued, take an hour or two now and have a last look at your kid’s list.  It might not make any difference in the final analysis, but you will both know that you left no stone unturned.

As always, call us, if you could use some free advice!

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Episode 55: The Liberal Arts Debate

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As we said last week when we kicked off Series 5, it seems to me that we have been reading and hearing a lot about higher education in the news. So we are going to dedicate some weeks to looking at news stories that are inspiring, upsetting, or just plain surprising—either about specific colleges or about higher education more generally.

Episode 55: The Liberal Arts Debate on NYCollegeChat podcast http://usacollegechat.org/episode55 Listen on iTunes, Stitcher, TuneIn

Some of the stories might immediately influence your teenager’s decisions about where to apply or later about where to attend, and other stories might take longer to impact your family. Either way, we think these are things parents should know and even act on.

Today’s topic is the liberal arts. While some parents believe that their teenagers should major in a field that leads directly to a job after college graduation rather than in the liberal arts, some colleges—including some unexpected ones— are stepping forward to praise the value of studying the liberal arts.

Let’s start by saying that studying the “liberal arts” means that students take courses in a variety of academic subjects, typically including literature, history, mathematics, fine arts, philosophy, foreign languages, biological and/or physical sciences (also called the natural sciences), and one or more of the social sciences, like psychology, sociology, or anthropology. Sometimes these subjects as a group are also called the “liberal arts and sciences” or just “arts and sciences” or “humanities and sciences.”

Our new book (that’s How To Find the Right College: A Workbook for Parents of High School Students, available electronically and in print at Amazon.com) talks about choosing liberal arts study vs. technical study for a whole chapter. We explain the debate and give the pros and cons for having a student study or major in one or the other. So we won’t repeat all of that reasoning here.

However, before we talk about an article on this topic that I read in The Hechinger Report last October, I want to say in the interest of full disclosure that both Marie and I took the liberal arts route for our undergraduate degrees—mine in English literature and Marie’s in sociology. So, it is possible that we are a bit biased in favor of having a liberal arts foundation. In Marie’s case, she never would have known that the field of sociology existed had it not been for the distribution requirements mandated by her traditional liberal arts college, Barnard. All three of my own children were gently guided in the past 10 years—both by their father and me and by their own colleges’ distribution requirements—into getting a liberal arts grounding first, before they went on to study for quite specialized bachelor’s degrees (in music performance, in visual arts and media, and in dance). All of us would take the liberal arts route again if we had it to do over. But that’s enough about us.

1. Two Unexpected Cases

In his article “The surprising institutions that refuse to drop the liberal arts,” Jon Marcus talks about two institutions that, by their very names, would appear to come down strongly on the side of technical study at the expense of liberal arts study. They are the United States Military Academy (commonly referred to as West Point) and the Culinary Institute of America—both located on the Hudson River a bit north of New York City. One produces soldiers, and one produces chefs—albeit some of the best soldiers and some of the best chefs anywhere.

Interestingly enough, however, West Point cadets choose from 40 academic majors that cover a broad array of disciplines—including American politics; art, philosophy and literature; foreign languages; history; sociology; and psychology; as well as management and the engineering and sciences you might expect. There are a lot of traditional liberal arts choices in that list. The Hechinger Report article quotes Brigadier General Timothy Trainor, the academic dean at West Point, on this subject:

It’s important to develop in young people the ability to think broadly, to operate in the context of other societies and become agile and adaptive thinkers. What you’re trying to do is teach them to deal with complexity, diversity, and change. They’re having to deal with people from other cultures. They have to think very intuitively to solve problems on the ground. (quoted from the article)

It is this critical thinking, problem solving, analysis, judgment, dealing with consequences, cultural sensitivity, and the sociology of their interactions with others that the proponents of the liberal arts claim can be taught most effectively through courses in liberal arts fields of study. And West Point seems to agree.

So does Michael Sperling, vice president for academic affairs at the private, nonprofit Culinary Institute of America, who is quoted in the article as saying this:

There’s a certain level of anti-intellectualism in the popular culture that inappropriately sees the pursuit of core disciplines as frivolous. And that’s unfortunate, because the kind of things you learn in philosophy courses and history courses deepens your ability to act in the world. (quoted from the article)

I think that “frivolous” is exactly the word that some parents would use to describe liberal arts study, and I hope that those parents are rethinking that position now.

Ted Russin, associate dean for culinary science, earned his degree in philosophy. He is quoted in the article as saying that Culinary Institute of America students “would definitely have technical skills. They could make a croissant and it would be exquisite. But there’s a difference between knowing how to do something and understanding what’s happening.” The bigger and broader understanding of what’s happening is what, some experts claim, the liberal arts provide.

2. Other Cases

Those of you who are faithful listeners to NYCollegeChat are likely to recall other higher education institutions we have talked about during our virtual college tour over the last few months—institutions that required more or offered more liberal arts courses and majors than you might have expected.

Let’s look at a few of our other military academies. We talked about the United States Naval Academy (commonly referred to as Annapolis). Young men and women at Annapolis graduate with Bachelor of Science degrees in a choice of about 25 majors—mostly in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics related to their future careers. But they can major instead in Arabic, Chinese, economics, English, history, or political science (and minor in other foreign languages).

We talked about the U.S. Coast Guard Academy, located in Connecticut, where seven of 24 core curriculum courses are from its Humanities Department, so cadets are well versed in the liberal arts when they graduate. Cadets may major in government (about 25 percent typically do) in addition to marine and environmental sciences and majors more directly related to maritime studies.

We talked about the Military College of South Carolina, The Citadel. The Citadel offers 20 undergraduate majors—with mandatory leadership and ethics studies—in the schools of business, education, engineering, science and mathematics, and humanities and social sciences.

Let’s look at some arts institutions. We talked about the Curtis Institute of Music and the University of the Arts in Philadelphia and the Rhode Island School of Design, where both the arts and the liberal arts are required parts of the curricula.

We talked about Berklee College of Music in Boston, which offers 12 different undergraduate music-related majors. But all Berklee students take both a core music curriculum (e.g., ear training, arranging, harmony) and a core liberal arts curriculum in the humanities, social sciences, and natural sciences and mathematics.

We talked about one of our nation’s finest art colleges: the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC), located adjacent to the world-famous art museum in downtown Chicago. SAIC offers a wide variety of art and design majors—along with a full array of liberal arts courses.

We talked about Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD), located in one of our nation’s prettiest towns. SCAD offers more than 40 undergraduate and graduate majors related to the arts and design, including writing. But, as part of the general education course requirements for undergraduates, students take liberal arts courses in the humanities and fine arts, natural sciences and mathematics, social and behavioral sciences, written and oral communication, and computer literacy.

Let’s look at a couple of Massachusetts colleges, which are known primarily as business colleges. We talked about Babson College, where at least half of students’ courses are in the liberal arts, including the study of a language that is useful in business dealings today—perhaps a bit surprising for a business-focused institution.

We talked about Bentley College, which offers its undergraduates 23 majors in 11 business fields and five arts and sciences disciplines. In fact, about 20 percent of undergraduates double major in business and Bentley’s Liberal Studies Major (which has eight interdisciplinary concentrations).

Let’s look at some high-tech institutions. We talked about Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken, New Jersey, which comprises schools of Engineering and Science, Business, and Systems and Enterprises—as well as a College of Arts and Letters, where students can major in art, music, literature and communications, philosophy, history, and the social sciences and “benefit from pursuing these disciplines charged by the latest advances in technology, science, and innovation and the fundamental idea that science and technology can be used as intellectual tools of inquiry” (quoted from the website).

We talked about the Georgia Institute of Technology (commonly known as Georgia Tech), located in Atlanta. Georgia Tech provides a “focused, technologically based education” (taken from the website) and offers degrees in six colleges—Architecture, Computing, Engineering, Sciences, Business, and Liberal Arts—with “more than 100 centers focused on interdisciplinary research that consistently contribute vital research and innovation to American government, industry, and business” (taken from the website).

We talked about Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) in Massachusetts, which offers 12 types of engineering and 50 undergraduate and graduate degree programs in science, technology, management, the social sciences, and the humanities and arts. A Humanities and Arts requirement ensures that WPI students are well rounded; it consists of six courses of the student’s choosing, including courses from at least two different liberal arts disciplines, or a six-course sequence in Spanish, German, or Chinese—along with a final project.

We talked about the Colorado School of Mines, a highly selective and highly specialized engineering college. In addition to its applied science and mathematics majors, its geoscience and resource engineering majors, and a variety of other engineering majors, Mines requires a core curriculum, which includes humanities and social sciences courses.

We talked about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), with its schools of Architecture and Planning, Engineering, Management, Science, and—last, but not least—the School of Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences. While we think of MIT as turning out first-rate engineers and scientists, students can also major in subjects in the School of Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences. By the way, all undergraduates at MIT take eight courses in the School of Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences (about 25 percent of their undergraduate program), so they truly become balanced students and informed citizens.

We talked about Columbia University’s well-known undergraduate Core Curriculum for Columbia College, its undergraduate liberal arts college. The Core Curriculum includes courses in literature, writing, art, music, civilization, science, and more. We said that the common texts that students read and discuss is like a greatest-hits list. But here is the remarkable statement from the website of Columbia’s Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science:

Engineering has been called the newest liberal art. At Columbia Engineering, students not only study science and mathematics and gain technical skills but also study literature, philosophy, art history, music theory, and major civilizations through the Core Curriculum in the humanities. (quoted from the website)

So, it is plain to see that specialized institutions—including institutions specializing in technical study—which seem unlikely champions of the liberal arts, are often, in fact, champions of the liberal arts.

3. What Some States Are Doing

Some states, however, have a different perspective. When dealing with financial cutbacks while trying to fund large public universities with taxpayers’ dollars, some states have questioned the value of the liberal arts—at least, some liberal arts fields anyway. Here are two ideas that have been proposed at the state level:

  • Charge students more tuition for liberal arts majors because the state does not believe that its economy needs them as much as it needs STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) majors and, thus, does not want to subsidize them to the same degree.
  • Encourage students who want to major in liberal arts fields to go to a private college to major in them and pay for that themselves—again, so the state does not have to subsidize those majors with public funds.

Some states have had their public universities cut back on some arts majors and some foreign language majors—not entire departments necessarily, but perhaps one language or one of the arts. Interestingly enough, these are the same two cuts that often get made at the high school level when public funds are tight. (Read Regina’s related blog post for more information.)

Maybe these states should have listened to what some colleges are saying—oh, and what employers are saying.

4. What Employers Are Saying

According to a survey by the Association of American Colleges and Universities, about 75 percent of the 318 corporate leaders surveyed “want more emphasis on critical thinking, problem-solving, written and oral communication, and applied knowledge . . . exactly the kinds of skills advocates for the liberal arts say they teach. Ninety-three percent agree that ‘a demonstrated capacity to think critically, communicate clearly, and solve complex problems’ is more important than a job candidate’s undergraduate major” (quoted from the article).

I am taking that to mean that a good job applicant who has an undergraduate liberal arts degree, who can speak and write and think and solve problems well, could be just as attractive to a corporation as a good job applicant who has an undergraduate business degree. So, parents, that is a viewpoint worth considering when it comes time for your teenager to choose a major for real as a college sophomore or junior or even to declare a tentative one on a college application.

5. A Few Practical Considerations

Let’s conclude with a few practical considerations. Marie and I have a preference for liberal arts study unless a student is absolutely dead certain that a technical field is his or her preference. That preference would have to be based on a long-time interest in that field, good grades in high school subjects that prepare a student for that field, discussions with people who work in that field, and some kind of internship or summer work experience in that field. All too often kids have an idea of a career they want to pursue without having any practical information about what that career is like in the real world.

And here’s one important thing to remember: Credits in liberal arts college courses (especially those taken in the first year of college) can be transferred far more easily among degree programs and even among colleges than credits in technical courses can. That means that a kid can change his or her mind after starting college (and many, many do) without losing too much time and, parents, too much of your money.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • How all students get their vocational or technical education at some point in their lives
  • What other reasons some states have for not wanting to fund liberal arts studies
  • Whether foreign languages, a traditional liberal arts discipline, are actually a technical career skill

Check out these higher education institutions and organizations we mention…

In New York State

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Episode 33: Colleges in the Rocky Mountain Region—Part I

In today’s episode, we will move our virtual tour of U.S. colleges westward to continue to highlight colleges that you and your teenager might not know much about. So far, we have travelled to the five states in the Great Lakes region and to the 12 states in the Southeast region. Now, we are headed out to the Rocky Mountains.

Colleges in the Rocky Mountain Region Part I on NYCollegeChat podcast. Show notes with links available at http://usacollegechat.org/33

As we have said previously, we are looking at four-year colleges only, reasoning that students headed to a public two-year college are highly likely to go to one in their home state and are not, therefore, looking to leave their own geographic region—at least not right away. We also want to repeat that no college has asked us or paid us anything to choose it.

Let us remind you that some of the colleges we have chosen will require that your child have very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in. On the other hand, others will be a bit easier, especially if a college is looking for out-of-state students to enhance its student body’s geographic diversity. But, because each student’s profile of grades and test scores and activities is his or her own unique package, it will be up to you to look at your child’s high school record to see which colleges might be most appropriate.

Two general notes: First, when we talk about the colleges and universities in this episode, we are talking about the main campus—that is, the one that most people associate with that institution—in those cases where an institution has more than one campus, which is most of them. Second, because enrollment figures are not necessarily comparable as reported by various colleges, you should use the figures we provide here just as an approximation of the actual campus enrollment, but one that is good enough to help you understand whether the student body is the right size for your child—roughly, small, medium, or large.

1. The Rocky Mountain Region

As we have said previously, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce) has divided the U.S. into eight regions, with each region’s covering four to 12 states. In this episode, we are considering the five states of the Rocky Mountain region: Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana.

If you are one of our listeners from the Northeast or the Southeast, for example, I am going to guess that you have not given a second thought to almost any college in the Rocky Mountain region for your child. I think there is at least one jewel that you should not miss. Let’s see what you think.

2. Flagship Public State Universities

As we have been doing on our virtual tour, let’s start with the flagship public state universities in these five states. Each state has one, though some are better known nationally than others. They are all good schools. While these universities have smaller branch campuses in other locations in their states, it is the main location—that is, the flagship of each state’s public system—that we will talk about here because that is the campus that is most respected and most widely recognized, both in the state and outside the state.

These flagship campuses do, in fact, attract students from across the U.S. and from as many as 110 foreign countries. Nonetheless, they all enroll a majority—from about 65 to 85 percent—of students from their home states. Many additional students come from nearby states. Therefore, a New York student with decent, though not spectacular, high school grades and college admission test scores might have a good chance of being accepted. As we have said before, colleges like to have geographic diversity in the student body.

Let us repeat what we have said in other episodes about flagship campuses for any new listeners: They are the place to be, if you graduated from high school in that state. Why? Because they are relatively inexpensive, academically respectable, well regarded across the state and across the country, super-competitive in sports arenas, chocked full of student clubs and activities, within driving distance of home, and a social hub for high school classmates. Consequently, these flagship campuses draw a large portion of the best high school students in the state, which understandably drives up the average high school GPA of entering freshmen.

So, what are these flagship campuses in the Rocky Mountain region? They are the University of Colorado Boulder, University of Utah in Salt Lake City, University of Wyoming in Laramie, University of Idaho in Moscow, and University of Montana in Missoula. These universities are located in different kinds of settings—from picturesque small college towns to substantial cities—but they have some things in common.

The first of those things is the beauty of the scenery that surrounds the campus and/or city. It is called the Rocky Mountain region for a reason; for those of you who have not ventured into these states, I want to say that it is hard to describe in words the massive physical presence of those Rocky Mountains—or, the open terrain, the rivers and lakes, and the broad expanse of sky that characterize this part of our country. I have heard impartial observers say repeatedly that the University of Colorado Boulder is the prettiest campus in the U.S. You can get an idea of its beauty from the website (check out the Scenic Videos section and take in those lovely red-roofed tan buildings), though you will probably miss a certain feeling of grandeur as you look at just a website version of the Rocky Mountains right next to the campus. For students who love the outdoors, these universities are going to be hard to beat.

Another thing they have in common is that they have a lot of students, though they are smaller than the big flagship campuses of the Great Lakes states. The University of Colorado Boulder and University of Utah have about 31,000 to 32,000 total students each, with right around 24,000 to 26,000 undergraduates. The University of Montana and the University of Wyoming have about 14,000 to 15,000 total students each, with about 10,000 undergraduates—just about half the size of CU-Boulder and Utah. And the University of Idaho is the smallest, with just about 10,500 total students (interestingly, about one-third of the University of Idaho’s entering freshmen are first-generation college goers). Generally, these undergraduate student bodies are going to feel large to incoming freshmen—which is either good or bad for your own child, depending on your child.

These flagship universities have from 7 to 10 undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges, though Utah has about twice that many at 16—from liberal arts and sciences to all kinds of career-related fields. In addition to engineering and business and education, there is CU-Boulder’s College of Music, Idaho’s College of Art and Architecture, Montana’s School of Journalism, Wyoming’s College of Health Sciences, and Utah’s College of Social Work, for example.

Here is one theme we noticed in this region: Idaho has a College of Natural Resources, Montana has a College of Forestry and Conservation, Utah has a College of Mines and Earth Sciences, and Wyoming has both a School of Environment and Natural Resources and a School of Energy Resources (with an interesting B.S. degree in Energy Resource Management and Development). These particular schools and colleges seem to fit well with the physical settings of their universities.

Our five flagship universities offer from about 75 to 130 undergraduate majors across their numerous undergraduate colleges and schools. The chances are excellent that a student can find what he or she is looking for. Interestingly, CU-Boulder advertises 32 concurrent bachelor’s/master’s degree programs, which would allow a student who wanted to go on for a master’s degree to earn both degrees in five years (without having to apply to college again for that graduate work, which is a real plus).

Like other large universities we have discussed, each one has many student clubs and organizations (sometimes as many as 200) and typically 15 or 16 men’s and women’s varsity sports teams (plus club sports and intramurals). And here is a fact that does not seem too surprising for a university located at the base of the Rocky Mountains: In 2015, CU-Boulder’s Buffaloes won the University’s 20th NCAA national skiing championship (the eighth championship since the sport went coed).

Each campus has its own history, which typically starts with its founding by pioneering leaders—after all, we are talking about the westward expansion of the 19th century here. UC-Boulder was founded in 1876, the same year Colorado became a state. Interestingly enough, the University of Wyoming was founded by its territorial legislature in 1886—four years before Wyoming became a state; furthermore, the University had both female students and female faculty members from the very beginning. And the University of Utah was founded in 1850—way before Utah became a state in 1896. What does that say about the value that these individuals put on higher education?

It goes without saying that westward expansion wreaked havoc on the lives of Native Americans, who had occupied their lands for centuries. The University of Utah has a close relationship with the Ute Tribe, whose historic homeland the campus sits on. Here is the University’s description of “Ute Proud” on a special section of its website:

The University of Utah uses the name “Utes” for its sports teams, as it has done with full support of the Ute Indian Tribe since 1972. The University, as the flagship of higher education in Utah, takes pride in carrying the name with understanding and respect toward our state’s namesake people. This website was created to encourage the entire U community—students, faculty, staff, fans, alumni, supporters—to learn more about the Ute culture, heritage and the history of our region. Ute history is Utah history so that we can all be “Ute Proud.” (quoted from the website)

As we have said in earlier episodes, the state public flagship universities are typically better academically and more widely recognized than many private colleges in the U.S., and there is no prestige—in case you think there is—in attending a more expensive private college that is not as good as a lower-cost great public university. And my personal thought is that CU-Boulder is a jewel that many families in our part of the country—the Northeast—never even consider. Trust me, you should.

3. Other Public State Universities

In four of these five Rocky Mountain states, there are also other public universities—some are branches of the flagship campus, but others are universities in their own right. Wyoming does not have any four-year public higher education institution other than the University of Wyoming, which we just talked about.

A second system of public higher education is available in each of the four states. Let’s look at Montana State University in Bozeman, Utah State University in Logan, and Idaho State University in Pocatello, all of which have their own smaller branch campuses in their own states. These three are about the same size—with total enrollments of roughly 13,500 to 15,000, made up of mostly undergraduate students. Montana State at about 15,500 is actually a bit larger than the flagship University of Montana; in fact, Montana State is also referred to as a “flagship” campus of the Montana State University system on its website and was founded the same year as the U of M, 1893. Montana State, Utah State, and Idaho State have from seven to nine undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges, with a wide array of bachelor’s degrees majors available. Idaho State offers 75 percent of its state’s health profession degree programs. They all have plenty of varsity sports (13 to 16 teams) and student organizations. All boast about their beautiful settings and nearby recreation areas (like most of the colleges in this region of the country)—their mountains and lakes and rivers and national parks and so on. And I believe all of the boasting is entirely justified.

In addition to the University of Idaho and Idaho State University, Idaho has a third public university that is still larger. That is Boise State University, located in the state capital, with a total enrollment of about 22,000 students, about 80 percent of whom are Idaho residents. Boise State has nine undergraduate and graduate colleges, including an intriguing College of Innovation and Design: “Leveraging the speed, collaboration, and risk-taking of a start-up, the college inspires and supports faculty, students and community members from diverse disciplines to create new pathways of learning that anticipate the demands and opportunities of our ever-changing world and workplace.” (quoted from the website) And its out-of-state tuition is comparatively low at just under $20,000.

Colorado has a relatively large second system of higher education: Colorado State University in Fort Collins, with a substantial enrollment of about 22,500 undergraduates and another 4,500 graduate and professional students. Its students are drawn nationally, but about 75 percent are from Colorado. Colorado State was founded in 1870 as the Colorado Agricultural College—six years before CU-Boulder and before Colorado became a state, though it taught its first classes in 1879. It has eight undergraduate, graduate, and professional colleges, and its average freshman boasts a 3.61 high school GPA. With 620 student organizations, 21 fraternities, 16 sororities, and 16 varsity sports, student life at Colorado State has to be pretty good.

An intriguing public choice also in Colorado is the Colorado School of Mines, an engineering college. Located in Golden, Mines, as it is known, enrolls about 5,500 total students, about 4,500 of whom are undergraduates. It has the largest collegiate chapter of the Society of Women Engineers. It is a highly selective college, whose applicants post a 3.8 unweighted high school GPA. It, too, was opened prior to Colorado statehood. In addition to its applied science and mathematics majors, its geoscience and resource engineering majors, and a variety of other engineering majors, Mines requires a core curriculum, which includes humanities and social sciences courses. Plus, it offers 180 student organizations and 18 varsity athletic teams. Mines is a college with a specialized academic focus—the kind we introduced our listeners to back in Episode 5—and, if that engineering focus is what your child wants, then Mines would be a fascinating choice worth considering.

Another interesting and equally demanding choice in Colorado is the United States Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. We talked about the pros and cons of the five U.S. military service academies in a much earlier episode. To recap, they are great academic institutions (especially in engineering programs), great for cultivating students’ leadership and teamwork skills, great for nurturing self-discipline and ethical behavior in students, and great for giving students a head start in a military career as an officer. On the other hand, students have to make a serious commitment to their college work and, much harder, to a multi-year military service appointment after graduation. And, depending whether our country is at war when students graduate, that is another concern. In addition to free tuition, each of the Academy’s 4,000 cadets receives a stipend of about $900 a month to cover the cost of uniforms, books, and supplies, with a bit left over for personal spending. While that is an attractive deal, remember that every applicant must not only meet rigorous academic standards, but also must secure a nomination from a member of Congress or the Vice President or another couple of authorities. About half of Academy graduates enter flight training after graduation, and the Academy has produced 39 astronauts.

As we have said before, all of these public universities (and there are a few more in these states than those we mentioned here) would cost an out-of-state student more than a public university in his or her own state, but less than many private colleges. So, consider looking at public universities beyond just the flagship universities, for the special programs or the appealing locations or the sense of history and tradition that they offer.

4. Student Exchanges for Tuition Reductions

Through the Western Undergraduate Exchange, college students who are residents of the 15 states that are members of the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education (WICHE), which includes our five Rocky Mountain states, may apply for an out-of-state tuition rate of 150 percent of resident tuition at participating colleges in the other member states (though many colleges do limit the number of these tuition deals each year). Virtually all the universities we have talked about in this episode are participating in the Western Undergraduate Exchange. So, if you reside in one of the 15 Western states, the Western Undergraduate Exchange is clearly something to look into. You have to apply for these slots, so get with it.

Though we alluded to a couple of similar deals in our Great Lakes episodes, let us detail now the Midwest Student Exchange Program, a program in which nine of the 12 states in the Midwestern Higher Education Compact (MHEC) participate. Through this program, public institutions charge nearby out-of-state students 150 percent of in-state tuition (just as in the Western Undergraduate Exchange). Furthermore, private institutions give participating state students a 10 percent reduction in their tuition. Again, there are limits to how many deals each institution will give, but students in Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Wisconsin should keep the Midwest Student Exchange in mind.

If you reside in another state, check to see whether your state has some deal in place with higher education institutions in nearby states. You might just get lucky.


Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • How great scenery and natural splendor could become a “deal breaker” for you
  • What the Rocky Mountain states offer that you never considered
  • Why you shouldn’t wait to get your application in when there is a financial deal available

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