Episode 28: Colleges in the Great Lakes Region—Part II

We are continuing our series on looking at colleges outside your comfort zone by taking a virtual tour of public colleges and universities in the Great Lakes region.

Show notes for today’s episode are available at http://usacollegechat.org/28.

In our last episode, we started our virtual tour of colleges by focusing in on the five states in Great Lakes region: Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin. We looked at public universities—both the flagship state public universities and other public universities in those states. In this episode, we will continue our look into the Great Lakes states by switching our focus to private colleges and universities.

Again, we want to make it clear that there is no statistical basis for the colleges we are going to name in each region. No college has asked us to name it, and no college has paid us anything to name it. These are entirely our own choices.

To be sure, some of the colleges we will name will require that your child have very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in. Others will be a bit easier, especially if a college is looking for out-of-state students to enhance its student body’s geographic diversity. But, because each student’s profile of grades and test scores and extracurricular activities and outside-of-school experiences is his or her own unique package, it will be up to you to look at your child’s high school record to see which colleges might be appropriate.

Two general notes: First, when we talk about the colleges and universities in this episode, we are going to be talking about the main campus—that is, the one that most people associate with that institution—in those cases where an institution has more than one campus. Second, because enrollment figures are not necessarily comparable when reported by various colleges, you should use the figures we provide here just as an approximation of the actual campus enrollment—but one that is good enough to let you know whether your child would feel comfortable there.

1. Private Colleges and Universities

The Great Lakes states have a wide array of private higher education institutions—from small liberal arts colleges to larger universities, including some of our country’s finest. Let’s start with a renowned private university, with a reputation for serious students: the University of Chicago. The University of Chicago enrolls about 5,000 undergraduates in the College, which is dedicated to providing a comprehensive liberal arts education for its students through discussion and debate in the classroom. Along with the required Core Curriculum of humanities, arts, natural sciences and math, social sciences, and foreign language, undergraduates can major in one of over 50 majors. The University seems committed to making itself affordable to students who need financial aid, but your child would need truly excellent high school grades and college admission test scores to be admitted.

Not far north from Chicago in suburban Evanston, Illinois, is the main campus of Northwestern University, well known for decades for its theater program, its Medill School of Journalism, and, more recently, for its competitive graduate business school. A member of the Big Ten athletic conference (like the flagship public universities in the Great Lakes states), Northwestern offers a traditional college atmosphere in a beautiful setting on Lake Michigan. With its 8,000 full-time undergraduate students (and just as many graduate students), Northwestern is certainly not small, but it is not nearly as large as its public colleagues. Like other good private universities, its tuition is high, and your child will need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in.

Moving over into northern Indiana next to South Bend and just 90 miles from the city of Chicago is probably the best-known Catholic university in the U.S.: the University of Notre Dame. Because of its excellent national reputation, it draws its approximately 9,000 undergraduates and its graduate students as well from across the globe. Notre Dame’s undergraduate students study in 65 majors in four colleges (arts and letters, science, engineering, and business). As befits a university that is “at once rigorously intellectual, unapologetically moral in orientation, and firmly embracing of a service ethos,” according to Notre Dame’s website, about 80 percent of students do some voluntary service-learning experiences. Notre Dame has an impressive 96 percent graduation rate—which means that students who start are highly likely to graduate, which is not true for many colleges, unfortunately. And we all know Notre Dame has a history of great football teams (can you say Fighting Irish?). By the way, we should note that about 80 percent of Notre Dame’s students are Catholic, in case that makes a difference either way to your child. As we have been saying, your child will need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in.

Let’s look at two small private colleges in Ohio, both of which have long histories and great reputations: Kenyon College and Oberlin College. Kenyon, located in the tiny town of Gambier, near Columbus, enrolls about 1,600 undergraduate students, drawn nationally and internationally. It offers 35 traditional liberal arts and sciences majors and prides itself on its small class size, typically about 15 students. One of Kenyon’s claims to fame is its support for the founding in 1939 of the literary magazine The Kenyon Review, by poet and critic John Crowe Ransom, who was recruited by Kenyon’s president for that purpose. Another is being named as one of the most beautiful campuses in the world, according to a group of architects interviewed by Forbes. Another is the 34 NCAA (Division III) swimming and diving championships its men have won in the past 36 years. Another is its good theater program, with alumni/alumnae like Paul Newman and Allison Janney.

Oberlin College, located in Oberlin, near Cleveland, enrolls about 2,300 undergraduates in its College of Arts and Sciences and about 600 undergraduates (and a tiny number of graduate students) in its highly respected Conservatory of Music, the oldest continuously operating conservatory in the U.S. (since 1865). Offering 47 liberal arts and sciences majors and eight music majors in the Conservatory, Oberlin also prides itself on its small class size, with about 75 percent of its classes having fewer than 20 students. Oberlin has a proud history as the first higher education institution in the U.S. to adopt a policy to admit African-American students (1835) and the first coeducational college to award bachelor’s degrees to women (1841). Your child would need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to be admitted to either Kenyon or Oberlin.

A Look at 13 Interesting Choices. is a nonprofit organization that was founded after the publication of a book entitled Colleges That Change Lives, by Loren Pope, a retired New York Times education editor. Updated several times since it was first published, there are now 44 colleges and universities profiled in the book and on the organization’s website. Those that are included are not necessarily famous institutions, but they all care deeply about individual students and strive to make the college into a community to support students. Many of the institutions have engaging and experiential aspects to their programs—such as internships, international and intercultural programs, and service-learning projects. Most of the institutions are smaller colleges and universities that have proved to be successful at developing students both personally and academically so that they can succeed in life after their undergraduate college years.

Interestingly, 14 of the 44 institutions on the list are located in the Great Lakes states. You should read about them in the book or on the website, because you will want your child to attend one of them if you do. Here are the ones in the Great Lakes states:

In Ohio: Ohio Wesleyan University, Denison University, the College of Wooster, Antioch College, and Hiram College
In Illinois: Knox College and Wheaton College
In Wisconsin: Lawrence University and Beloit College
In Michigan: Kalamazoo College, Hillsdale College, and Hope College
In Indiana: Earlham College and Wabash College (one of the handful of U.S. colleges that still admits only men)
Because these institutions are relatively small and thus are not particularly well known outside of their geographic region, it is my feeling that out-of-state students with a good high school record might have a decent chance of being accepted.

2. Colleges with a Special Academic Focus

In an earlier episode of NYCollegeChat, we talked about colleges that have a special academic focus, like the arts or business or engineering. In our two-episode tour of the Great Lakes region, we have already mentioned two institutions that have well-known schools of music as part of the institution: the Jacobs School of Music at Indiana University Bloomington and the Conservatory of Music at Oberlin College. But the Great Lakes region also is home to one of our nation’s finest art colleges: the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC), located adjacent to the world-famous art museum in downtown Chicago. SAIC draws 3,200 students globally into undergraduate and graduate studies in a wide variety of art and design majors, including all of the visual arts plus fashion design, art history, arts administration, architecture, film and animation, art education and art therapy, and more—along with a full array of liberal arts courses. As with all colleges specializing in the arts—whether visual arts, music, or dance—applications require a portfolio of student work. So, only talented students need apply.

The Great Lakes region also is home to one of the relatively few institutions more or less dedicated to the study of engineering: the Milwaukee School of Engineering (MSOE) in Wisconsin. MSOE offers 12 undergraduate engineering majors and four graduate engineering majors. In addition, MSOE offers majors in business, mathematics, and nursing. With an undergraduate enrollment of about 2,500 students, the typical class size is 21 students and typical lab size is 11 students. Its admissions guidelines concerning high school grades and college admission test scores seem quite reasonable, especially for an engineering school, which is typically very hard to be admitted to.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…
College life in the middle of a city vs. college life in the middle of nowhere
Questions colleges should answer for you, like what their safety statistics are
Questions you might want to raise about sensitivity to and accommodations for religious or cultural differences among students

Find links to all the higher education institutions and programs we mention at http://usacollegechat.org/28

Connect with us through…
Subscribing to NYCollegeChat on iTunes, Stitcher, or TuneIn!
Following us on Twitter @NYCollegeChat
Reviewing parent materials we have available at Policy Studies in Education
Inquiring about our consulting services if you need individualized help
Following us on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/nycollegechat

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…
Leaving a comment on the show notes at http://usacollegechat.org/28
Calling our hotline at (516) 900-NYCC
Emailing us at paul@policystudies.org to ask a question if you want us to answer it privately

We are continuing our series on looking at colleges outside your comfort zone by taking a virtual tour of private colleges and universities in the Great Lakes region.

NYCollegeChat's virtual tour of colleges in the Great Lakes Region part 2

In our last episode, we started our virtual tour of colleges by focusing in on the five states in Great Lakes region: Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin. We looked at public universities—both the flagship state public universities and other public universities in those states. In this episode, we will continue our look into the Great Lakes states by switching our focus to private colleges and universities.

Again, we want to make it clear that there is no statistical basis for the colleges we are going to name in each region. No college has asked us to name it, and no college has paid us anything to name it. These are entirely our own choices.

To be sure, some of the colleges we will name will require that your child have very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in. Others will be a bit easier, especially if a college is looking for out-of-state students to enhance its student body’s geographic diversity. But, because each student’s profile of grades and test scores and extracurricular activities and outside-of-school experiences is his or her own unique package, it will be up to you to look at your child’s high school record to see which colleges might be appropriate.

Two general notes: First, when we talk about the colleges and universities in this episode, we are going to be talking about the main campus—that is, the one that most people associate with that institution—in those cases where an institution has more than one campus. Second, because enrollment figures are not necessarily comparable when reported by various colleges, you should use the figures we provide here just as an approximation of the actual campus enrollment—but one that is good enough to let you know whether your child would feel comfortable there.

1. Private Colleges and Universities

The Great Lakes states have a wide array of private higher education institutions—from small liberal arts colleges to larger universities, including some of our country’s finest. Let’s start with a renowned private university, with a reputation for serious students: the University of Chicago. The University of Chicago enrolls about 5,000 undergraduates in the College, which is dedicated to providing a comprehensive liberal arts education for its students through discussion and debate in the classroom. Along with the required Core Curriculum of humanities, arts, natural sciences and math, social sciences, and foreign language, undergraduates can major in one of over 50 majors. The University seems committed to making itself affordable to students who need financial aid, but your child would need truly excellent high school grades and college admission test scores to be admitted.

Not far north from Chicago in suburban Evanston, Illinois, is the main campus of Northwestern University, well known for decades for its theater program, its Medill School of Journalism, and, more recently, for its competitive graduate business school. A member of the Big Ten athletic conference (like the flagship public universities in the Great Lakes states), Northwestern offers a traditional college atmosphere in a beautiful setting on Lake Michigan. With its 8,000 full-time undergraduate students (and just as many graduate students), Northwestern is certainly not small, but it is not nearly as large as its public colleagues. Like other good private universities, its tuition is high, and your child will need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in.

Moving over into northern Indiana next to South Bend and just 90 miles from the city of Chicago is probably the best-known Catholic university in the U.S.: the University of Notre Dame. Because of its excellent national reputation, it draws its approximately 9,000 undergraduates and its graduate students as well from across the globe. Notre Dame’s undergraduate students study in 65 majors in four colleges (arts and letters, science, engineering, and business). As befits a university that is “at once rigorously intellectual, unapologetically moral in orientation, and firmly embracing of a service ethos,” according to Notre Dame’s website, about 80 percent of students do some voluntary service-learning experiences. Notre Dame has an impressive 96 percent graduation rate—which means that students who start are highly likely to graduate, which is not true for many colleges, unfortunately. And we all know Notre Dame has a history of great football teams (can you say Fighting Irish?). By the way, we should note that about 80 percent of Notre Dame’s students are Catholic, in case that makes a difference either way to your child. As we have been saying, your child will need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in.

Let’s look at two small private colleges in Ohio, both of which have long histories and great reputations: Kenyon College and Oberlin College. Kenyon, located in the tiny town of Gambier, near Columbus, enrolls about 1,600 undergraduate students, drawn nationally and internationally. It offers 35 traditional liberal arts and sciences majors and prides itself on its small class size, typically about 15 students. One of Kenyon’s claims to fame is its support for the founding in 1939 of the literary magazine The Kenyon Review, by poet and critic John Crowe Ransom, who was recruited by Kenyon’s president for that purpose. Another is being named as one of the most beautiful campuses in the world, according to a group of architects interviewed by Forbes. Another is the 34 NCAA (Division III) swimming and diving championships its men have won in the past 36 years. Another is its good theater program, with alumni/alumnae like Paul Newman and Allison Janney.

Oberlin College, located in Oberlin, near Cleveland, enrolls about 2,300 undergraduates in its College of Arts and Sciences and about 600 undergraduates (and a tiny number of graduate students) in its highly respected Conservatory of Music, the oldest continuously operating conservatory in the U.S. (since 1865). Offering 47 liberal arts and sciences majors and eight music majors in the Conservatory, Oberlin also prides itself on its small class size, with about 75 percent of its classes having fewer than 20 students. Oberlin has a proud history as the first higher education institution in the U.S. to adopt a policy to admit African-American students (1835) and the first coeducational college to award bachelor’s degrees to women (1841). Your child would need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to be admitted to either Kenyon or Oberlin.

A Look at 13 Interesting Choices.  is a nonprofit organization that was founded after the publication of a book entitled Colleges That Change Lives, by Loren Pope, a retired New York Times education editor. Updated several times since it was first published, there are now 44 colleges and universities profiled in the book and on the organization’s website. Those that are included are not necessarily famous institutions, but they all care deeply about individual students and strive to make the college into a community to support students. Many of the institutions have engaging and experiential aspects to their programs—such as internships, international and intercultural programs, and service-learning projects.   Most of the institutions are smaller colleges and universities that have proved to be successful at developing students both personally and academically so that they can succeed in life after their undergraduate college years.

Interestingly, 14 of the 44 institutions on the list are located in the Great Lakes states. You should read about them in the book or on the website, because you will want your child to attend one of them if you do. Here are the ones in the Great Lakes states:

Because these institutions are relatively small and thus are not particularly well known outside of their geographic region, it is my feeling that out-of-state students with a good high school record might have a decent chance of being accepted.

2. Colleges with a Special Academic Focus

In an earlier episode of NYCollegeChat, we talked about colleges that have a special academic focus, like the arts or business or engineering. In our two-episode tour of the Great Lakes region, we have already mentioned two institutions that have well-known schools of music as part of the institution: the Jacobs School of Music at Indiana University Bloomington and the Conservatory of Music at Oberlin College. But the Great Lakes region also is home to one of our nation’s finest art colleges: the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC), located adjacent to the world-famous art museum in downtown Chicago. SAIC draws 3,200 students globally into undergraduate and graduate studies in a wide variety of art and design majors, including all of the visual arts plus fashion design, art history, arts administration, architecture, film and animation, art education and art therapy, and more—along with a full array of liberal arts courses. As with all colleges specializing in the arts—whether visual arts, music, or dance—applications require a portfolio of student work. So, only talented students need apply.

The Great Lakes region also is home to one of the relatively few institutions more or less dedicated to the study of engineering: the Milwaukee School of Engineering (MSOE) in Wisconsin. MSOE offers 12 undergraduate engineering majors and four graduate engineering majors. In addition, MSOE offers majors in business, mathematics, and nursing. With an undergraduate enrollment of about 2,500 students, the typical class size is 21 students and typical lab size is 11 students. Its admissions guidelines concerning high school grades and college admission test scores seem quite reasonable, especially for an engineering school, which is typically very hard to be admitted to.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • College life in the middle of a city vs. college life in the middle of nowhere
  • Questions colleges should answer for you, like what their safety statistics are
  • Questions you might want to raise about sensitivity to and accommodations for religious or cultural differences among students

Check out these higher education institutions and programs we mention…

Outside of New York State

Connect with us through…

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

 

Episode 27: Colleges in the Great Lakes Region—Part I

We are continuing our series on looking at colleges outside your comfort zone by taking a virtual tour of public colleges and universities in the Great Lakes region. Complete show notes for today’s episode, including links to all of the colleges mentioned, can be found at http://usacollegechat.org/27.

In our last episode, we said that we were going to take you on a virtual tour of colleges across the U.S. to try to stretch your thinking about colleges that might be attractive to your child. As we start our tour this week, we are going to spotlight public colleges. We are going to talk about four-year colleges only, reasoning that students headed to a public two-year college are highly likely to go to one in their home state and are not, therefore, looking to leave their own geographic region right away. If your child is headed to a public two-year college, just save this information until it might be time for your child to transfer to a four-year college later on.

Again, we want to make it clear that there is no statistical basis for the colleges we are going to name in each region. While we do not promise to name a lot of great colleges in every state, we do promise to name a lot of great colleges.

And as we said last week, if you have a college you would like us to talk about on the air, please email us or call us and tell us what it is and why it is great, and we will certainly consider it. Let us also say again that no college has asked us to name it and that no college has paid us anything to name it. These are entirely our own choices.

To be sure, some of the colleges we will name will require that your child have very good high school grades and college admissions test scores to get in. Others will be a bit easier, especially if a college is looking for out-of-state students to enhance its student body’s geographic diversity. But, because each student’s profile of grades and test scores and extracurricular activities and outside-of-school experiences is his or her own unique package, it will be up to you to look at your child’s high school record to see which colleges might be appropriate.

One general note about the location of college campuses: It used to be that most colleges had a single campus. Then, large public universities looked to serve more and more students as the college-going rate increased in the last century. We started to see branch campuses of these large public universities—a couple and then five or seven or more—as supply rose to meet demand. Now, private universities and colleges have started to open more locations, too—probably in an effort to attract students who do not want to commute to or live on the main campus. All this opening of branches and locations has made talking about colleges a bit complicated. When we talk about the colleges and universities in this episode, we are going to be talking about the main campus—that is, the one that most people associate with that institution.

And one general note about enrollment figures: While we tried hard to pull enrollment figures from college websites in order to give you an idea of how large or how small our spotlighted colleges are, we believe that the figures are not necessarily comparable from college to college. For example, sometimes colleges include part-time students, sometimes they don’t, and sometimes you can’t tell whether they do or don’t. So, use the enrollment figures we are giving as just an approximation of the actual campus enrollment. These figures are certainly good enough to help you understand whether the student body is the right size for your child. In other words, it doesn’t really matter if a university has 19,000 undergraduate students or 25,000 undergraduate students; it is still a huge school.

1. The Great Lakes Region

The Bureau of Economic Analysis (an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce) has divided the U.S. into eight regions, with each region’s covering four to 12 states. So let’s get started with the five states that make up the Bureau’s Great Lakes region: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin.

For those of you who are listening in our home state of New York, I am guessing that the Great Lakes region sounds far away, except perhaps for Ohio, which we can think of as right across New Jersey and/or Pennsylvania from us. For those of you who are listening in the South or Southwest or on the West Coast, I am guessing that all these states seem far removed from where you thought you might send your child. But there are a lot of great colleges and universities in the Great Lakes region, so let’s begin.

2. Flagship Public State Universities

One notable category of higher education institutions in these five states is the flagship public state university. Each of the Great Lakes states has one, though some are better known nationally than others. They are all good schools, and I would argue that at least a couple of them are, in fact, great schools. While these universities have smaller branch campuses in other locations in their states, it is the main location—that is, the flagship of each state’s public system—that we will talk about here because that is the campus that is best known and likely most respected both in the state and outside the state.

If you want to apply to one of these campuses from out of state, your child will need good to excellent high school grades and good to excellent college admission test scores, with some being a bit harder to get into than others. Just remember, the best and the brightest high school students who live in these states really want to go to their flagship state university. Why? Because these schools are relatively inexpensive (because they are public), academically respectable, well regarded across the state and across the country, super-competitive in sports arenas, chocked full of student clubs and activities, within driving distance of home, and a social hub for lots of their high school classmates. They are the place to be, if you live in that state. That attitude might be hard for those of us who live in New York State to understand, because we do not have the same kind of famous flagship campus that draws a large percentage of our state’s best high school graduates. The State University of New York (SUNY) operates more like individual colleges located around the state rather than one main campus with branches of it around the state, as in the Great Lakes region. SUNY does not have one big flagship campus that the majority of New York high school students are dying to go to.

So, what are these flagship campuses in the Great Lakes region? They are the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, University of Wisconsin–Madison, Indiana University Bloomington, University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign, and The Ohio State University in Columbus. While these universities are located in different kinds of settings—from medium-sized college towns to state capitals (and let me tell you that Madison has one of the prettiest state capitol buildings you are ever going to find)—and while some have colder weather than others (like Michigan and Wisconsin—believe me, I know), they also have a lot in common.

For example, they are huge. The average number of undergraduates enrolled at the flagship campuses in Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Illinois is almost 30,000, with a total undergraduate, graduate, and professional student enrollment averaging almost 45,000, Ohio State is bigger still, with about 45,000 undergraduates and a total enrollment of about 58,000 students. While some of these campuses brag about the relatively small class size of many of their classes and the kind of personalized attention they give their students, you can be sure that a shy student could easily get lost in the shuffle of a very large campus and in what will surely be some large lecture halls, with lots of students trying to get the professors’ attention.

Within each flagship university, there are from 11 to 19 different undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges—arts and sciences, education, engineering, business, agriculture and life sciences, nursing, law, medicine, veterinary medicine, architecture, and more—including, at Indiana, the famous Jacobs School of Music. These universities offer from about 135 to almost 250 undergraduate majors—truly something for every student, almost no matter what the student is interested in.

As befits any huge university, each one has hundreds and hundreds of student clubs and organizations and more than 20 men’s and women’s varsity sports teams (plus club sports and intramurals). They are all part of the Big Ten athletic conference, so you can be sure that students go to football and basketball games and root for the home team. This is all part of the college life and proud traditions at these universities.

Each of these five flagship universities is well enough known and highly enough regarded to attract students from virtually every state in the U.S. and from typically more than 100 foreign countries. Interestingly enough, New York and California are among the top states outside the Great Lakes region that send students to these schools every year, so they aren’t secrets—at least not to parents and guidance counselors who are well versed in college options outside their home states.

All of these public universities would cost an out-of-state student more than a public university in his or her own state, but would still cost less than most private colleges—that is, before any financial aid package is figured in. More important, they are better academically and more widely recognized than many private colleges in the U.S. There is no prestige in attending a private college that is not as good as a great public university. So this might be the time to consider one.

3. Other Public State Universities

In these five Great Lakes states, there are also other public universities—not branches of the flagship campus, but other universities in their own right, some of which are also quite well known.

One of the best-known of these—and perhaps the best in many respects—is Michigan State University, located in East Lansing, just outside Michigan’s capital. It is actually larger than most of the flagship campuses we just discussed—with about 39,000 undergraduates and 11,000 graduate and professional students. Like the flagship campuses, it draws students from all states and more than 100 foreign countries, has more than 15 colleges, offers about 160 undergraduate majors, and is a member of the Big Ten. The state of Michigan is one clear example of a state where the two largest public universities—the University of Michigan and Michigan State University—are virtually equal in their fame and appeal.

Another example of a state where the two largest public universities are virtually equal in their fame and appeal is the state of Indiana, which has both Indiana University Bloomington and the Purdue University public system, with its main campus in West Lafayette. Note that Purdue is a public university, even though the name does not sound like it (it was named after a very large donor, John Purdue, in 1869). Another member of the Big Ten, Purdue enrolls about 30,000 undergraduates at the main campus (plus about 9,000 graduate and professional students)—maybe just a bit smaller than IU Bloomington. Given Purdue’s good national reputation, it draws students globally; barely over half of Purdue undergraduates are actually Indiana residents. Purdue offers 10 undergraduate and graduate schools, with over 100 majors for undergraduates; it has a very highly ranked College of Engineering and some highly ranked business majors.

When we attended the National Association for College Admission Counseling’s college fair in New York City last weekend, we had a nice chat with Amanda Wulle, the Assistant Director of Admissions (NYC Regional Representative) at Purdue, who did a quick audio pitch for her alma mater for NYCollegeChat. Be sure to listen to it in our recorded episode.

Several smaller (but still quite large, by anybody’s standard) public choices are Wayne State University in the city of Detroit, Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, and Kent State University in Ohio (with its main campus in Kent). Each of these public universities has about 20,000 undergraduate students and from 5,000 to 10,000 graduate and professional students at its main campus. They offer from 10 to 13 undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges, including a well-known medical school at Wayne State and a College of Aviation at Western Michigan (which you just don’t see every day). Interestingly, the vast majority of students at each university come from within its home state. That could mean that an application from a student in a far away state would be especially attractive. And I couldn’t mention Western Michigan without a fond word for one of its longtime, now retired, education professors and an amazing colleague, Daniel Stufflebeam. Dan was one of the great innovators in the field of educational evaluation for decades (actually since his groundbreaking work at Ohio State).

As we said earlier, all of these public universities (and there are even more in these states than those we mentioned here) would cost an out-of-state student more than a public university in his or her own state, but less than most private colleges. So, consider looking at public universities beyond just the flagship university.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

How students get around the campus and the town/city
How “livable” the college town/city is and how much of a plus that is for students
How ethnically and racially diverse these campuses are and how that might affect your child’s admission chances

Check out the higher education institutions and programs we mention by visiting our show notes for today’s episode at http://usacollegechat.org/27

Connect with us through…
Commenting on the show notes for today’s episode at http://usacollegechat.org/27
Subscribing to NYCollegeChat on iTunes, Stitcher, or TuneIn!
Following us on Twitter @NYCollegeChat
Reviewing parent materials we have available at Policy Studies in Education
Inquiring about our consulting services if you need individualized help
Following us on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/nycollegechat

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…
Calling us at (516) 900-NYCC to record a question on our NYCollegeChat voicemail if you want us to answer your question live on our podcast
Emailing us at paul@policystudies.org to ask a question if you want us to answer it privately

We are continuing our series on looking at colleges outside your comfort zone by taking a virtual tour of public colleges and universities in the Great Lakes region.

Colleges in the Great Lakes Region—Part I on NYCollegeChat podcast

In our last episode, we said that we were going to take you on a virtual tour of colleges across the U.S. to try to stretch your thinking about colleges that might be attractive to your child. As we start our tour this week, we are going to spotlight public colleges. We are going to talk about four-year colleges only, reasoning that students headed to a public two-year college are highly likely to go to one in their home state and are not, therefore, looking to leave their own geographic region right away. If your child is headed to a public two-year college, just save this information until it might be time for your child to transfer to a four-year college later on.

Again, we want to make it clear that there is no statistical basis for the colleges we are going to name in each region. While we do not promise to name a lot of great colleges in every state, we do promise to name a lot of great colleges.

And as we said last week, if you have a college you would like us to talk about on the air, please email us or call us and tell us what it is and why it is great, and we will certainly consider it. Let us also say again that no college has asked us to name it and that no college has paid us anything to name it. These are entirely our own choices.

To be sure, some of the colleges we will name will require that your child have very good high school grades and college admissions test scores to get in. Others will be a bit easier, especially if a college is looking for out-of-state students to enhance its student body’s geographic diversity. But, because each student’s profile of grades and test scores and extracurricular activities and outside-of-school experiences is his or her own unique package, it will be up to you to look at your child’s high school record to see which colleges might be appropriate.

One general note about the location of college campuses: It used to be that most colleges had a single campus. Then, large public universities looked to serve more and more students as the college-going rate increased in the last century. We started to see branch campuses of these large public universities—a couple and then five or seven or more—as supply rose to meet demand. Now, private universities and colleges have started to open more locations, too—probably in an effort to attract students who do not want to commute to or live on the main campus. All this opening of branches and locations has made talking about colleges a bit complicated. When we talk about the colleges and universities in this episode, we are going to be talking about the main campus—that is, the one that most people associate with that institution.

And one general note about enrollment figures: While we tried hard to pull enrollment figures from college websites in order to give you an idea of how large or how small our spotlighted colleges are, we believe that the figures are not necessarily comparable from college to college. For example, sometimes colleges include part-time students, sometimes they don’t, and sometimes you can’t tell whether they do or don’t. So, use the enrollment figures we are giving as just an approximation of the actual campus enrollment. These figures are certainly good enough to help you understand whether the student body is the right size for your child. In other words, it doesn’t really matter if a university has 19,000 undergraduate students or 25,000 undergraduate students; it is still a huge school.

1. The Great Lakes Region

The Bureau of Economic Analysis (an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce) has divided the U.S. into eight regions, with each region’s covering four to 12 states. So let’s get started with the five states that make up the Bureau’s Great Lakes region: Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin.

For those of you who are listening in our home state of New York, I am guessing that the Great Lakes region sounds far away, except perhaps for Ohio, which we can think of as right across New Jersey and/or Pennsylvania from us. For those of you who are listening in the South or Southwest or on the West Coast, I am guessing that all these states seem far removed from where you thought you might send your child. But there are a lot of great colleges and universities in the Great Lakes region, so let’s begin.

2. Flagship Public State Universities

One notable category of higher education institutions in these five states is the flagship public state university. Each of the Great Lakes states has one, though some are better known nationally than others. They are all good schools, and I would argue that at least a couple of them are, in fact, great schools. While these universities have smaller branch campuses in other locations in their states, it is the main location—that is, the flagship of each state’s public system—that we will talk about here because that is the campus that is best known and likely most respected both in the state and outside the state.

If you want to apply to one of these campuses from out of state, your child will need good to excellent high school grades and good to excellent college admission test scores, with some being a bit harder to get into than others. Just remember, the best and the brightest high school students who live in these states really want to go to their flagship state university. Why? Because these schools are relatively inexpensive (because they are public), academically respectable, well regarded across the state and across the country, super-competitive in sports arenas, chocked full of student clubs and activities, within driving distance of home, and a social hub for lots of their high school classmates. They are the place to be, if you live in that state. That attitude might be hard for those of us who live in New York State to understand, because we do not have the same kind of famous flagship campus that draws a large percentage of our state’s best high school graduates. The State University of New York (SUNY) operates more like individual colleges located around the state rather than one main campus with branches of it around the state, as in the Great Lakes region. SUNY does not have one big flagship campus that the majority of New York high school students are dying to go to.

So, what are these flagship campuses in the Great Lakes region? They are the University of Michigan at Ann ArborUniversity of Wisconsin–Madison, Indiana University Bloomington, University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign, and The Ohio State University in Columbus. While these universities are located in different kinds of settings—from medium-sized college towns to state capitals (and let me tell you that Madison has one of the prettiest state capitol buildings you are ever going to find)—and while some have colder weather than others (like Michigan and Wisconsin—believe me, I know), they also have a lot in common.

For example, they are huge. The average number of undergraduates enrolled at the flagship campuses in Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Illinois is almost 30,000, with a total undergraduate, graduate, and professional student enrollment averaging almost 45,000, Ohio State is bigger still, with about 45,000 undergraduates and a total enrollment of about 58,000 students. While some of these campuses brag about the relatively small class size of many of their classes and the kind of personalized attention they give their students, you can be sure that a shy student could easily get lost in the shuffle of a very large campus and in what will surely be some large lecture halls, with lots of students trying to get the professors’ attention.

Within each flagship university, there are from 11 to 19 different undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges—arts and sciences, education, engineering, business, agriculture and life sciences, nursing, law, medicine, veterinary medicine, architecture, and more—including, at Indiana, the famous Jacobs School of Music. These universities offer from about 135 to almost 250 undergraduate majors—truly something for every student, almost no matter what the student is interested in.

As befits any huge university, each one has hundreds and hundreds of student clubs and organizations and more than 20 men’s and women’s varsity sports teams (plus club sports and intramurals). They are all part of the Big Ten athletic conference, so you can be sure that students go to football and basketball games and root for the home team. This is all part of the college life and proud traditions at these universities.

Each of these five flagship universities is well enough known and highly enough regarded to attract students from virtually every state in the U.S. and from typically more than 100 foreign countries. Interestingly enough, New York and California are among the top states outside the Great Lakes region that send students to these schools every year, so they aren’t secrets—at least not to parents and guidance counselors who are well versed in college options outside their home states.

All of these public universities would cost an out-of-state student more than a public university in his or her own state, but would still cost less than most private colleges—that is, before any financial aid package is figured in. More important, they are better academically and more widely recognized than many private colleges in the U.S. There is no prestige in attending a private college that is not as good as a great public university. So this might be the time to consider one.

3. Other Public State Universities

In these five Great Lakes states, there are also other public universities—not branches of the flagship campus, but other universities in their own right, some of which are also quite well known.

One of the best-known of these—and perhaps the best in many respects—is Michigan State University, located in East Lansing, just outside Michigan’s capital. It is actually larger than most of the flagship campuses we just discussed—with about 39,000 undergraduates and 11,000 graduate and professional students. Like the flagship campuses, it draws students from all states and more than 100 foreign countries, has more than 15 colleges, offers about 160 undergraduate majors, and is a member of the Big Ten. The state of Michigan is one clear example of a state where the two largest public universities—the University of Michigan and Michigan State University—are virtually equal in their fame and appeal.

Another example of a state where the two largest public universities are virtually equal in their fame and appeal is the state of Indiana, which has both Indiana University Bloomington and the Purdue University public system, with its main campus in West Lafayette. Note that Purdue is a public university, even though the name does not sound like it (it was named after a very large donor, John Purdue, in 1869). Another member of the Big Ten, Purdue enrolls about 30,000 undergraduates at the main campus (plus about 9,000 graduate and professional students)—maybe just a bit smaller than IU Bloomington. Given Purdue’s good national reputation, it draws students globally; barely over half of Purdue undergraduates are actually Indiana residents. Purdue offers 10 undergraduate and graduate schools, with over 100 majors for undergraduates; it has a very highly ranked College of Engineering and some highly ranked business majors.

When we attended the National Association for College Admission Counseling’s college fair in New York City last weekend, we had a nice chat with Amanda Wulle, the Assistant Director of Admissions (NYC Regional Representative) at Purdue, who did a quick audio pitch for her alma mater for NYCollegeChat. Be sure to listen to it in our recorded episode.

Several smaller (but still quite large, by anybody’s standard) public choices are Wayne State University in the city of Detroit, Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, and Kent State University in Ohio (with its main campus in Kent). Each of these public universities has about 20,000 undergraduate students and from 5,000 to 10,000 graduate and professional students at its main campus. They offer from 10 to 13 undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges, including a well-known medical school at Wayne State and a College of Aviation at Western Michigan (which you just don’t see every day). Interestingly, the vast majority of students at each university come from within its home state. That could mean that an application from a student in a far away state would be especially attractive. And I couldn’t mention Western Michigan without a fond word for one of its longtime, now retired, education professors and an amazing colleague, Daniel Stufflebeam. Dan was one of the great innovators in the field of educational evaluation for decades (actually since his groundbreaking work at Ohio State).

As we said earlier, all of these public universities (and there are even more in these states than those we mentioned here) would cost an out-of-state student more than a public university in his or her own state, but less than most private colleges. So, consider looking at public universities beyond just the flagship university.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • How students get around the campus and the town/city
  • How “livable” the college town/city is and how much of a plus that is for students
  • How ethnically and racially diverse these campuses are and how that might affect your child’s admission chances

Check out these higher education institutions and programs we mention…

In New York State

Outside of New York State

Connect with us through…

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

Episode 5: Colleges with Special Emphases (Part 2)

We’re continuing our series on understanding the world of college this week by exploring colleges and universities with selected academic specialties.

Regardless of the wide range of subjects most students study in high school, for some students one particular subject is the only reason to come to school. That is one reason that it is so important for high schools to offer a full array of subjects and a broad schedule of after-school activities.

Some students are ready to specialize when it comes to college. What those students have to decide is whether to attend a university—which offers the field of study they are interested in, along with many, many others—or a college that is entirely dedicated to the field of study they are interested in.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…
What parents, teachers, and high school students want from arts education
The truth about taking courses across schools or colleges within a university
The surprising breadth of courses in colleges devoted to the arts

Connect with us through…
Subscribing to NYCollegeChat on iTunes, Spreaker, Stitcher, or TuneIn!
Following us on Twitter @NYCollegeChat
Reviewing parent materials we have available at Policy Studies in Education
Inquiring about our consulting services if you need individualized help
Following us on Facebook as NYCollegeChat

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…
Calling our hotline at 516-900-NYCC
Emailing us at paul@policystudies.org to ask a question if you want us to answer it privately

We’re continuing our series on understanding the world of college this week by exploring colleges and universities with selected academic specialties.

NYCollegeChat Episode 5 Colleges with Special Emphases Part 2NYCollegeChat is now available on iTunes, Spreaker, Stitcher, and TuneIn!

Colleges and Universities with Selected Academic Specialties

Regardless of the wide range of subjects most students study in high school, for some students one particular subject is the only reason to come to school. That is one reason that it is so important for high schools to offer a full array of subjects and a broad schedule of after-school activities.

Some students are ready to specialize when it comes to college. What those students have to decide is whether to attend a university—which offers the field of study they are interested in, along with many, many others—or a college that is entirely dedicated to the field of study they are interested in. As we said in an earlier episode, a university typically has separate colleges or schools within it, each of which focuses on a broad field of study—for example, within the State University of New York at New Paltz, undergraduates can attend the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, the School of Business, the School of Education, the School of Fine and Performing Arts, or the School of Science and Engineering. (Learn more about two-year colleges, four-year colleges, and universities in this episode of the podcast.)

What are the pros and cons of choosing a university or an independent dedicated college? On one hand, a student who ends up wanting to change to a different field of study might have an easier time doing so in a university setting, where that student could end up in an entirely different part of the university. On the other hand, a student who does really well in one field and does not want to spend time studying others might progress quicker, learn more in depth, and be better focused in a college dedicated to that field.

So let’s look at the arts first. Students who are passionate about the arts have quite a number of well-regarded choices. Some schools devoted to the arts are within larger institutions, including the Eastman School of Music at the University of Rochester, the Tisch School of the Arts at New York University, the Conservatory of Music at Oberlin College, the Meadows School of the Arts at Southern Methodist University, and the Jacobs School of Music at Indiana University.

Turning to institutions wholly dedicated to the arts, there is the highly selective Juilliard School here in New York City, well known for its degrees in drama, music, and dance. The School of the Art Institute of Chicago, associated with the famous art museum of the same name, offers degrees in studio art, but also in art history and art education as well as other arts-related specialties. Founded in 1887, Pratt Institute in New York City offers both undergraduate and graduate degrees, with 22 associate’s and bachelor’s degrees in the arts and arts-related fields, including degrees in architecture, graphic design, painting and drawing, illustration, film, photography, digital arts, fashion, interior design, and art history. Rhode Island School of Design offers 15 Bachelors of Fine Arts majors in visual arts and design specialties and a Bachelor of Architecture degree.

Berklee College of Music in Boston, which is dedicated to the study of music, is a bit different from most other music schools because it draws students from around the world to study contemporary, rather than classical, music and offers degrees in a wide range of music specialties, including performance, composition, film scoring, music therapy, music education, production and engineering, and music business. Berklee’s new graduate campus in Valencia, Spain—again, dedicated to the study of music—offers its master’s degrees programs in extraordinary facilities, designed by modern architect Santiago Calatrava, in a setting that showcases global music.

Students who are intrigued by the rigorous technical field of engineering might consider a school of engineering within a large university (many big public universities have them and quite a few private universities also have them), like the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, California Institute of Technology, the University of Texas, Texas A & M University, the University of Illinois, the University of Southern California, Carnegie Mellon University, Cornell University, Columbia University, and many more. But, some smaller colleges have engineering programs as well. Take the example of Manhattan College (in New York City), which has 3,500 students, but offers a School of Engineering with both undergraduate and graduate degrees. Or these students might consider an institution that is dedicated to the study of engineering, like the Milwaukee School of Engineering.

Students who have decided that business is their future can attend business schools that can be found at many public and private universities—some well-known for their undergraduate business schools and some for their graduate business schools—including the University of Pennsylvania, Harvard University, the University of Chicago, Stanford University, New York University, Northwestern University, the University of California at Berkeley, the University of Virginia, and many more. Stand-alone institutions dedicated to the study of business are the other way to go. Students could consider places like Babson College and Bentley University, both private colleges located in Massachusetts.

The two options—a school or college within a larger university vs. a stand-alone college dedicated to one academic field—and these examples will give you some background for thinking about college options when a student is truly interested in one field of study.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • What parents, teachers, and high school students want from arts education
  • The truth about taking courses across schools or colleges within a university
  • The surprising breadth of courses in colleges devoted to the arts

Check out these higher education institutions we mention…

In New York State

Outside of New York State

Connect with us through…

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…