Episode 101: College Application Fees–Oh, My!

Listen to the episode in the player, download it here, or subscribe on Google Play MusiciTunesStitcher, or TuneIn.

Welcome back after our Thanksgiving break. We hope your holiday was not ruined by college application hysteria. With about a month to go until many application deadlines hit, we would like to take up a practical topic that might affect how many applications your teenager is thinking about submitting in a few weeks. That topic is application fees.

college-application-fees-oh-my-on-usacollegechat-podcast1. The Cost

For some of you, the cost of submitting an application–which is likely to be somewhere between $35 and $75 per application–is not a big deal. Even if your teenager applies to 10 or 15 schools with fees on the higher side, that cost of perhaps $1,000 is not critical in your financial picture.

However, for many families, coming up with even $500 is a significant issue. A lot is written in the education press about the notion that application fees, even reasonable ones, do actually keep some kids from applying to college–especially lower-income kids and first-generation college-goers. All of us interested in improving the educational lives of our nation’s kids should view that as a problem.

The Jack Kent Cooke Foundation, headed by USACollegeChat‘s good friend Harold O. Levy, published an Issue Brief last June, entitled “Opening College Doors To Equal Educational Opportunity: Removing Barriers That Keep Most High-Achieving Students From Low-Income Families Out of Top Colleges and Universities.” (You can listen to our interview with Harold here.) Among the thoughtful recommendations in the Foundation’s excellent examination of college-going is this one: “Automatically waive application fees for students who appear to be from low-income families. Our previous research suggests that not all low-income applicants eligible for fee waivers request them.”

2. The Process

We wholeheartedly agree with the Foundation. Clearly, some families are intimidated by the prospect of figuring out how to get a waiver for those application fees, even though this is one thing that most high school guidance counselors are well equipped to handle. And there are several routes to those waivers.

The Common App makes it relatively easy. In completing the Common App, your teenager will be asked to declare whether and why he or she is eligible for a fee waiver. The question offers all of the choices for confirming eligibility: receiving an ACT/SAT testing fee waiver, getting free or reduced-price lunch at school, meeting family income eligibility guidelines, being enrolled in a government program that aids students from low-income families, receiving public assistance, being homeless or living in a foster home, being a ward of the state or an orphan, or being able to supply a statement from a local school or community official.

If your teenager has already received a fee waiver for taking the SAT or a Subject Test, the College Board will automatically provide four FREE college application fee waivers. The National Association for College Admission Counseling (NACAC) also has a form that can be used to request fee waivers. NACAC suggests using its fee waivers for up to four colleges.

In most cases, at some point, your teenager’s guidance counselor will be asked to verify eligibility for the waiver. So, it is important to stay in contact with the guidance counselor to make sure that the guidance counselor knows that your teenager has applied for the waivers and that process is working. I think it is fair to say that, just as technology has made it easier to apply to colleges, it has also made it easier to get and use application fee waivers. But that doesn’t mean that some families won’t still be intimidated and/or confused by the process, especially if parents are not native English speakers.

3. Interesting Cases

Let’s look at a few cases of colleges that have recently dropped the application fee. Starting this year, Bowdoin College (Brunswick, ME), an excellent small liberal arts college, will automatically waive the $65 application fee “for students applying for financial aid and first-generation-to-college students (neither parent graduated from a four-year college or university),” according to its website. Trinity College (Hartford, CT), another great small liberal arts college, has eliminated its $65 application fee for first-generation college students.

While it is undoubtedly helpful that colleges are making accommodations for families who need them, it was surprising to me to learn just how many colleges–including top-ranked colleges–do not have any application fees at all. For example, Reed College (Portland, OR) eliminated its $50 fee. Its website explains the decision this way:

‘It’s a small but meaningful step,’ said Crystal Williams, Dean for Institutional Diversity. ‘We want Reed to be a more inclusive community and cutting the admission fee levels the playing field at the earliest stage of the game and allows prospective students a chance to explore all their opportunities.’ (quoted from the website)

Here is a short list of great colleges with no fee, in addition to our excellent military academies (you can find them all just by Googling “colleges without application fees,” just as I did):

There are many, many more. To tell you the truth, I couldn’t have been more surprised. We should note, by the way, that some colleges charge a fee for a paper application, even when they do not charge a fee for an online application, like the Common App.

While a lot of colleges we just named are private liberal arts colleges, let’s take a final look at a very different case–and that is The City University of New York (CUNY), with its 11 four-year colleges and seven community colleges. Elizabeth Harris at The New York Times reported on CUNY’s recent application fee changes for this application season:

New York City public school students from low-income families will no longer have to pay a fee to apply to the City University of New York, . . . part of an effort to encourage more young people to go to college.

Under the initiative, all high school students who meet one of a handful of criteria will be able to apply to CUNY free. The city estimated that the change will affect 37,500 students, up from about 6,500 students in recent years. More than half of the city’s public school students who enroll in college attend CUNY schools.

The application fee is $65 per student, but Mayor Bill de Blasio said that while the amount can seem trivial to some, for many families it is not. And for students who are not sure about applying to college, it is one more hurdle standing in the way of their continued education. . . .

In the past, CUNY granted fee waivers to students with the greatest need, according to the city’s Education Department. Now, any student who qualifies for free or reduced-price lunch, who is homeless or in foster care, or whose family lives in federally subsidized public housing or receives public assistance will automatically be given a waiver. Undocumented students in those categories will also be eligible.

The city’s schools chancellor, Carmen Fariña, said students would not need to apply to skip the fee, so this requires no extra step. (quoted from the article)

I think this is a great move by CUNY, but let me go one step more. Why should any student have to pay an application fee to a public university in his or her own home state? It seems to me that no application fee should be one of the perks of public higher education–if not for all students, then at least for students in that state. If an application fee is an obstacle to students–as many have said it is–then shouldn’t that obstacle be removed in public higher education? Maybe then we would have more students from low-income families and even middle-income families applying to the great public flagship university in their own state or to the public universities in states that are lucky enough to have more than one.

4. A Final Thought

While application fee waivers can help solve the problem of getting more lower-income students to apply to college and even to apply to more colleges so that they can have a wider selection of colleges to choose from next spring, what about kids from middle-income families and even upper-income families who do not qualify for the waivers? I think we have said this before, but it bears repeating right now: Limiting the number of colleges your teenager can apply to because of the cost of making the applications could be penny wise and pound foolish.

We continue to believe that it is important for kids to have as many options as possible once those acceptance letters come in. If a couple of hundred dollars now means that your teenager is looking at more options next April, then we think it is worth it. We don’t say that lightly, but we know that giving teenagers their best chance to choose a college from among a handful of acceptances can be priceless and can be a sound investment for many years to come. So, it’s still not too late to add a few colleges to the list–especially if you have not maxed out your Common App slots!

The Kindle ebook version of our book, How To Find the Right College, is on sale for $0.99 through 2016! Read it on your Kindle device or download the free Kindle app for any tablet or smartphone. The book is also available as a paperback workbook.

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

  • Leaving a comment below on the show notes for this episode
  • Calling us at (516) 900-6922 to record a question on our USACollegeChat voicemail if you want us to answer your question live on our podcast

Connect with us through…

Episode 61: New Admissions Report Focuses on Student Service—Part One

Listen to the episode in the player, download it here, or subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or TuneIn.

This is our seventh episode focusing on news stories about higher education—some that might immediately change your thoughts about colleges for your teenager and others that might take a bit longer to consider.  Today’s story and next week’s story look at a new report that grew out of a meeting a year ago hosted by a Harvard Graduate School of Education project called Making Caring Common.  The meeting brought together college admissions deans, high school folks, and others to discuss the state of college admissions.  The report is entitled Turning the Tide: Inspiring Concern for Others and the Common Good through College Admissions.

NYCollegeChat Episode 61 New Admissions Report Focuses on Student Service—Part One

In a recent Education Week commentary (“College Admission 2.0: Service Over Self,” January 19, 2016), project co-director Richard Weissbourd said this:

For perhaps the first time in history, a broad range of colleges have come together to send a powerful collective message that what’s important in admissions is not high numbers of impressive accomplishments or long ‘brag sheets.’  Yes, academic engagement matters, but so does meaningful ethical engagement, especially as shown in concern for others and the common good.  The report also redefines ethical and intellectual contributions to more fairly capture the strengths of students across race, culture, and class.  (quoted from the article)

I hope this is true, but I am not totally convinced just yet.  Who signed on to this report?  Well, the list of “endorsers” included every Ivy League school plus an impressive list of about 50 more higher education institutions, including some of our nation’s best small liberal arts colleges, best public flagship universities, and best private universities, including Amherst College, Boston College, Boston University, Bowdoin College, Brandeis University, College of the Holy Cross, Emory University, Kenyon College, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Michigan State University, Oberlin College, Purdue University, Reed College, Rice University, Smith College, Swarthmore College, the University of Chicago, the University of Michigan, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the University of Virginia, the University of Washington, Wabash College, and Wake Forest University.  Incidentally, we talked about every one of these institutions during our virtual tour of colleges nationwide.  They are great schools.

The question now is simply this:  How much do they mean it?

The Report’s Recommendations

The report makes 11 recommendations (the report actually has the recommendations divided into three sections), which I am going to quote for you in these episodes, and we will talk about them one by one.  We will do the first half of the recommendations in this episode, so here we go:

1) “Meaningful, Sustained Community Service:  We recommend that students engage in forms of service that are authentically chosen—that emerge from a student’s particular passions and interests—that are consistent and well-structured, and that provide opportunity for reflection both individually and with peers and adults.  We also recommend that students undertake at least a year of sustained service or community engagement . . . .  This service can take the form of substantial and sustained contributions to one’s family, such as working outside the home to provide needed income.  Just as important, it’s vital that the admissions process squarely challenges misconceptions about what types of service are valued in admissions.  Some students seek to ‘game’ service by taking up high-profile or exotic forms of community service, sometimes in faraway places, that have little meaning to them but appear to demonstrate their entrepreneurial spirit and leadership.  The admissions process should clearly convey that what counts is not whether service occurred locally or in some distant place or whether students were leaders, but whether students immersed themselves in an experience and the emotional and ethical awareness and skills generated by that experience.”  (quoted from the report)

So, that’s a mouthful.  What does it all mean?  That the service be something that your teenager is actually interested in and invested in; that the service be something your teenager thinks about, talks about with other kids and with adults, and learns from; that the service last at least a year; and that the service may be something that your teenager does in order to support or help your own family, such as working at a paid job if financial help is needed or taking care of a younger sibling or an elderly relative if that kind of family support is needed.  To be sure, Marie and I saw kids at the high school we co-founded in New York City who had substantial family responsibilities, which made it very difficult for them to engage in the other kinds of service that students without such responsibilities had the free time to undertake.  I think that the report’s notion that the service last at least a year is also significant.  In other words, the college might not look so favorably on a one-week community service project—unless perhaps a student did those projects summer after summer and during other school vacations.

2) “Collective Action that Takes on Community Challenges:  While individual service can be valuable, we also encourage young people to consider various forms of community engagement, including working in groups on community problems, whether the problem is a local park that needs attention, bullying in their schools or communities or some form of environmental degradation.  These types of activities can help young people develop key emotional and ethical capacities, including problem-solving skills and group awareness, as well as greater understanding of and investment in the common good.”  (quoted from the report)

It strikes me that these community engagement projects could be run by local government agencies, community nonprofit organizations, or religious organizations.  However, these projects are the kinds that could also be run by high schools, which would help not only their communities, but also their students on their college applications.  These projects might be run as after-school clubs or as after-school semester-long or year-long projects of a science or social studies class or as long-term PTA-sponsored efforts.  If I were a high school principal, I would be talking to my teachers and counselors and PTA officers right now about this idea—because projects like these are truly valuable learning opportunities for kids, regardless of their usefulness on college applications.

3) “Authentic, Meaningful Experiences with Diversity:  We encourage students to undertake community service and engagement that deepens their appreciation of diversity.  Too often, current forms of service are patronizing to recipients and don’t spark in those providing service a deeper understanding of social structures and inequalities.  Rather than students “doing for” students from different backgrounds, for example, we encourage students to “do with”—to work in diverse groups for sustained periods of time on school and community challenges, groups in which students learn from one another.  Importantly, these experiences of diversity should be carefully constructed and facilitated.”  (quoted from the report)

Now, this might be a tall order, especially in some not-too-diverse communities.  I also strongly believe that students can “do for” others without being patronizing.  For many years, I served on the board of an after-school homework-help and enrichment program for low-income kids, including some newly arrived in the U.S., who would otherwise have gone home to empty apartments.  Teenagers from local high schools volunteered in the afternoons to work with our elementary-school-aged kids.  Were some of the teenagers patronizing?  Probably so, even when they didn’t mean to be.  But did they go away with “a deeper understanding of social structures and inequalities”?  Yes, many of them did.  With that said, I also see the value of the “doing with” philosophy.  Could high schools play a role in putting together these projects, where kids from diverse backgrounds work together toward a worthwhile goal?  I believe so; but, as the recommendation says, “these experiences of diversity should be carefully constructed and facilitated.”  That takes a dedicated high school staff member or two or three to pull off.

4) “Service that Develops Gratitude and a Sense of Responsibility for the Future:  We encourage students to take up forms of community engagement, service and reflection that help them appreciate the contributions of the generations before them—how their lives are built on the service of others—and their responsibility to their descendants.  Working within a tradition, whether religious or secular, such as 4H clubs, can help generate this kind of gratitude and responsibility.”  (quoted from the report)

My guess is that this type of service is probably best left to community groups and religious organizations.  Any community project that is devoted to recording or celebrating the history of the area or of its people could qualify.  For example, I can imagine a great project where Brooklyn students volunteer their time to give tours of the historic buildings or do educational events with younger students at Weeksville, which was a community founded by African-American freedmen in the mid-1800s.  That would be a way to honor previous generations and give to future generations.  I can also imagine that, in communities where many high school graduates continue to live and work, intergenerational community service activities between older alums and current high school students could prove rewarding.

5) “Contributions to One’s Family:  The admissions process should clearly send the message to students, parents and other caregivers that not only community engagement and service, but also students’ family contributions, such as caring for younger siblings, taking on major household duties or working outside the home to provide needed income, are highly valued in the admissions process.  Far too often there is a perception that high-profile, brief forms of service tend to count in admissions, while these far more consistent, demanding, and deeper family contributions are overlooked.  Students should have clear opportunities to report these family contributions on their applications.”  (quoted from the report)

Marie and I certainly agree that this is an issue with lots of kids, especially perhaps lower-income urban kids.  I do not think that college applications always make it obvious to kids where they should write about these kinds of family responsibilities.  They can list paid jobs held or other family care activities done during the summer, for example, but those lists do not always give kids a chance to describe their family situation or explain all that they really do.  Sometimes family responsibilities can be the focus of an essay on an application, especially a supplemental essay or the second essay in the Common App where kids are asked to add anything else they want to say.  But I don’t think that these options are really the “clear opportunities” that the report is calling for.  A specific question about family care and support would be better—but I worry that all kids will now feel that this is one more thing they have to be able to respond to in order to get into college, which rather weakens the point of adding the question in the first place.

6) “Assessing Students’ Daily Awareness of and Contributions to Others:  The admissions process should seek to assess more effectively whether students are ethically responsible and concerned for others and their communities in their daily lives.  The nature of students’ day-to-day conduct should be weighed more heavily in admissions than the nature of students’ stints of service.”  (quoted from the report)

Wow.  That is more than I imagine almost any college application can actually do.  The only way I can see to make this happen is to suggest on recommendation forms that teachers and guidance counselors and other adults (like clergy, internship supervisors, and employers) consider this character trait and individual behavior when writing their college recommendations for students.  Some of these adults have a window into the daily or at least weekly activities of students and might be able to comment on how they see a student interacting with others, reaching out to help others, or serving as a role model or leader for others at school, at work, in places of worship, or in the greater community.

So there you have the first six of the 11 report recommendations.  They are an interesting bunch.  More next week!

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • How easy it might be for colleges to take these recommendations
  • How high schools could make a difference
  • How history might have predicted some of these recommendations

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

  • Leaving a comment here on the show notes for this episode
  • Calling us at (516) 900-NYCC to record a question on our NYCollegeChat voicemail if you want us to answer your question live on our podcast
  • Emailing us at paul@policystudies.org to ask a question if you want us to answer it privately

Connect with us through…

Listen to the episode in the player, download it here, or subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or TuneIn.

Episode 28: Colleges in the Great Lakes Region—Part II

We are continuing our series on looking at colleges outside your comfort zone by taking a virtual tour of public colleges and universities in the Great Lakes region.

Show notes for today’s episode are available at http://usacollegechat.org/28.

In our last episode, we started our virtual tour of colleges by focusing in on the five states in Great Lakes region: Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin. We looked at public universities—both the flagship state public universities and other public universities in those states. In this episode, we will continue our look into the Great Lakes states by switching our focus to private colleges and universities.

Again, we want to make it clear that there is no statistical basis for the colleges we are going to name in each region. No college has asked us to name it, and no college has paid us anything to name it. These are entirely our own choices.

To be sure, some of the colleges we will name will require that your child have very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in. Others will be a bit easier, especially if a college is looking for out-of-state students to enhance its student body’s geographic diversity. But, because each student’s profile of grades and test scores and extracurricular activities and outside-of-school experiences is his or her own unique package, it will be up to you to look at your child’s high school record to see which colleges might be appropriate.

Two general notes: First, when we talk about the colleges and universities in this episode, we are going to be talking about the main campus—that is, the one that most people associate with that institution—in those cases where an institution has more than one campus. Second, because enrollment figures are not necessarily comparable when reported by various colleges, you should use the figures we provide here just as an approximation of the actual campus enrollment—but one that is good enough to let you know whether your child would feel comfortable there.

1. Private Colleges and Universities

The Great Lakes states have a wide array of private higher education institutions—from small liberal arts colleges to larger universities, including some of our country’s finest. Let’s start with a renowned private university, with a reputation for serious students: the University of Chicago. The University of Chicago enrolls about 5,000 undergraduates in the College, which is dedicated to providing a comprehensive liberal arts education for its students through discussion and debate in the classroom. Along with the required Core Curriculum of humanities, arts, natural sciences and math, social sciences, and foreign language, undergraduates can major in one of over 50 majors. The University seems committed to making itself affordable to students who need financial aid, but your child would need truly excellent high school grades and college admission test scores to be admitted.

Not far north from Chicago in suburban Evanston, Illinois, is the main campus of Northwestern University, well known for decades for its theater program, its Medill School of Journalism, and, more recently, for its competitive graduate business school. A member of the Big Ten athletic conference (like the flagship public universities in the Great Lakes states), Northwestern offers a traditional college atmosphere in a beautiful setting on Lake Michigan. With its 8,000 full-time undergraduate students (and just as many graduate students), Northwestern is certainly not small, but it is not nearly as large as its public colleagues. Like other good private universities, its tuition is high, and your child will need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in.

Moving over into northern Indiana next to South Bend and just 90 miles from the city of Chicago is probably the best-known Catholic university in the U.S.: the University of Notre Dame. Because of its excellent national reputation, it draws its approximately 9,000 undergraduates and its graduate students as well from across the globe. Notre Dame’s undergraduate students study in 65 majors in four colleges (arts and letters, science, engineering, and business). As befits a university that is “at once rigorously intellectual, unapologetically moral in orientation, and firmly embracing of a service ethos,” according to Notre Dame’s website, about 80 percent of students do some voluntary service-learning experiences. Notre Dame has an impressive 96 percent graduation rate—which means that students who start are highly likely to graduate, which is not true for many colleges, unfortunately. And we all know Notre Dame has a history of great football teams (can you say Fighting Irish?). By the way, we should note that about 80 percent of Notre Dame’s students are Catholic, in case that makes a difference either way to your child. As we have been saying, your child will need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in.

Let’s look at two small private colleges in Ohio, both of which have long histories and great reputations: Kenyon College and Oberlin College. Kenyon, located in the tiny town of Gambier, near Columbus, enrolls about 1,600 undergraduate students, drawn nationally and internationally. It offers 35 traditional liberal arts and sciences majors and prides itself on its small class size, typically about 15 students. One of Kenyon’s claims to fame is its support for the founding in 1939 of the literary magazine The Kenyon Review, by poet and critic John Crowe Ransom, who was recruited by Kenyon’s president for that purpose. Another is being named as one of the most beautiful campuses in the world, according to a group of architects interviewed by Forbes. Another is the 34 NCAA (Division III) swimming and diving championships its men have won in the past 36 years. Another is its good theater program, with alumni/alumnae like Paul Newman and Allison Janney.

Oberlin College, located in Oberlin, near Cleveland, enrolls about 2,300 undergraduates in its College of Arts and Sciences and about 600 undergraduates (and a tiny number of graduate students) in its highly respected Conservatory of Music, the oldest continuously operating conservatory in the U.S. (since 1865). Offering 47 liberal arts and sciences majors and eight music majors in the Conservatory, Oberlin also prides itself on its small class size, with about 75 percent of its classes having fewer than 20 students. Oberlin has a proud history as the first higher education institution in the U.S. to adopt a policy to admit African-American students (1835) and the first coeducational college to award bachelor’s degrees to women (1841). Your child would need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to be admitted to either Kenyon or Oberlin.

A Look at 13 Interesting Choices. is a nonprofit organization that was founded after the publication of a book entitled Colleges That Change Lives, by Loren Pope, a retired New York Times education editor. Updated several times since it was first published, there are now 44 colleges and universities profiled in the book and on the organization’s website. Those that are included are not necessarily famous institutions, but they all care deeply about individual students and strive to make the college into a community to support students. Many of the institutions have engaging and experiential aspects to their programs—such as internships, international and intercultural programs, and service-learning projects. Most of the institutions are smaller colleges and universities that have proved to be successful at developing students both personally and academically so that they can succeed in life after their undergraduate college years.

Interestingly, 14 of the 44 institutions on the list are located in the Great Lakes states. You should read about them in the book or on the website, because you will want your child to attend one of them if you do. Here are the ones in the Great Lakes states:

In Ohio: Ohio Wesleyan University, Denison University, the College of Wooster, Antioch College, and Hiram College
In Illinois: Knox College and Wheaton College
In Wisconsin: Lawrence University and Beloit College
In Michigan: Kalamazoo College, Hillsdale College, and Hope College
In Indiana: Earlham College and Wabash College (one of the handful of U.S. colleges that still admits only men)
Because these institutions are relatively small and thus are not particularly well known outside of their geographic region, it is my feeling that out-of-state students with a good high school record might have a decent chance of being accepted.

2. Colleges with a Special Academic Focus

In an earlier episode of NYCollegeChat, we talked about colleges that have a special academic focus, like the arts or business or engineering. In our two-episode tour of the Great Lakes region, we have already mentioned two institutions that have well-known schools of music as part of the institution: the Jacobs School of Music at Indiana University Bloomington and the Conservatory of Music at Oberlin College. But the Great Lakes region also is home to one of our nation’s finest art colleges: the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC), located adjacent to the world-famous art museum in downtown Chicago. SAIC draws 3,200 students globally into undergraduate and graduate studies in a wide variety of art and design majors, including all of the visual arts plus fashion design, art history, arts administration, architecture, film and animation, art education and art therapy, and more—along with a full array of liberal arts courses. As with all colleges specializing in the arts—whether visual arts, music, or dance—applications require a portfolio of student work. So, only talented students need apply.

The Great Lakes region also is home to one of the relatively few institutions more or less dedicated to the study of engineering: the Milwaukee School of Engineering (MSOE) in Wisconsin. MSOE offers 12 undergraduate engineering majors and four graduate engineering majors. In addition, MSOE offers majors in business, mathematics, and nursing. With an undergraduate enrollment of about 2,500 students, the typical class size is 21 students and typical lab size is 11 students. Its admissions guidelines concerning high school grades and college admission test scores seem quite reasonable, especially for an engineering school, which is typically very hard to be admitted to.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…
College life in the middle of a city vs. college life in the middle of nowhere
Questions colleges should answer for you, like what their safety statistics are
Questions you might want to raise about sensitivity to and accommodations for religious or cultural differences among students

Find links to all the higher education institutions and programs we mention at http://usacollegechat.org/28

Connect with us through…
Subscribing to NYCollegeChat on iTunes, Stitcher, or TuneIn!
Following us on Twitter @NYCollegeChat
Reviewing parent materials we have available at Policy Studies in Education
Inquiring about our consulting services if you need individualized help
Following us on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/nycollegechat

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…
Leaving a comment on the show notes at http://usacollegechat.org/28
Calling our hotline at (516) 900-NYCC
Emailing us at paul@policystudies.org to ask a question if you want us to answer it privately

We are continuing our series on looking at colleges outside your comfort zone by taking a virtual tour of private colleges and universities in the Great Lakes region.

NYCollegeChat's virtual tour of colleges in the Great Lakes Region part 2

In our last episode, we started our virtual tour of colleges by focusing in on the five states in Great Lakes region: Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin. We looked at public universities—both the flagship state public universities and other public universities in those states. In this episode, we will continue our look into the Great Lakes states by switching our focus to private colleges and universities.

Again, we want to make it clear that there is no statistical basis for the colleges we are going to name in each region. No college has asked us to name it, and no college has paid us anything to name it. These are entirely our own choices.

To be sure, some of the colleges we will name will require that your child have very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in. Others will be a bit easier, especially if a college is looking for out-of-state students to enhance its student body’s geographic diversity. But, because each student’s profile of grades and test scores and extracurricular activities and outside-of-school experiences is his or her own unique package, it will be up to you to look at your child’s high school record to see which colleges might be appropriate.

Two general notes: First, when we talk about the colleges and universities in this episode, we are going to be talking about the main campus—that is, the one that most people associate with that institution—in those cases where an institution has more than one campus. Second, because enrollment figures are not necessarily comparable when reported by various colleges, you should use the figures we provide here just as an approximation of the actual campus enrollment—but one that is good enough to let you know whether your child would feel comfortable there.

1. Private Colleges and Universities

The Great Lakes states have a wide array of private higher education institutions—from small liberal arts colleges to larger universities, including some of our country’s finest. Let’s start with a renowned private university, with a reputation for serious students: the University of Chicago. The University of Chicago enrolls about 5,000 undergraduates in the College, which is dedicated to providing a comprehensive liberal arts education for its students through discussion and debate in the classroom. Along with the required Core Curriculum of humanities, arts, natural sciences and math, social sciences, and foreign language, undergraduates can major in one of over 50 majors. The University seems committed to making itself affordable to students who need financial aid, but your child would need truly excellent high school grades and college admission test scores to be admitted.

Not far north from Chicago in suburban Evanston, Illinois, is the main campus of Northwestern University, well known for decades for its theater program, its Medill School of Journalism, and, more recently, for its competitive graduate business school. A member of the Big Ten athletic conference (like the flagship public universities in the Great Lakes states), Northwestern offers a traditional college atmosphere in a beautiful setting on Lake Michigan. With its 8,000 full-time undergraduate students (and just as many graduate students), Northwestern is certainly not small, but it is not nearly as large as its public colleagues. Like other good private universities, its tuition is high, and your child will need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in.

Moving over into northern Indiana next to South Bend and just 90 miles from the city of Chicago is probably the best-known Catholic university in the U.S.: the University of Notre Dame. Because of its excellent national reputation, it draws its approximately 9,000 undergraduates and its graduate students as well from across the globe. Notre Dame’s undergraduate students study in 65 majors in four colleges (arts and letters, science, engineering, and business). As befits a university that is “at once rigorously intellectual, unapologetically moral in orientation, and firmly embracing of a service ethos,” according to Notre Dame’s website, about 80 percent of students do some voluntary service-learning experiences. Notre Dame has an impressive 96 percent graduation rate—which means that students who start are highly likely to graduate, which is not true for many colleges, unfortunately. And we all know Notre Dame has a history of great football teams (can you say Fighting Irish?). By the way, we should note that about 80 percent of Notre Dame’s students are Catholic, in case that makes a difference either way to your child. As we have been saying, your child will need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to get in.

Let’s look at two small private colleges in Ohio, both of which have long histories and great reputations: Kenyon College and Oberlin College. Kenyon, located in the tiny town of Gambier, near Columbus, enrolls about 1,600 undergraduate students, drawn nationally and internationally. It offers 35 traditional liberal arts and sciences majors and prides itself on its small class size, typically about 15 students. One of Kenyon’s claims to fame is its support for the founding in 1939 of the literary magazine The Kenyon Review, by poet and critic John Crowe Ransom, who was recruited by Kenyon’s president for that purpose. Another is being named as one of the most beautiful campuses in the world, according to a group of architects interviewed by Forbes. Another is the 34 NCAA (Division III) swimming and diving championships its men have won in the past 36 years. Another is its good theater program, with alumni/alumnae like Paul Newman and Allison Janney.

Oberlin College, located in Oberlin, near Cleveland, enrolls about 2,300 undergraduates in its College of Arts and Sciences and about 600 undergraduates (and a tiny number of graduate students) in its highly respected Conservatory of Music, the oldest continuously operating conservatory in the U.S. (since 1865). Offering 47 liberal arts and sciences majors and eight music majors in the Conservatory, Oberlin also prides itself on its small class size, with about 75 percent of its classes having fewer than 20 students. Oberlin has a proud history as the first higher education institution in the U.S. to adopt a policy to admit African-American students (1835) and the first coeducational college to award bachelor’s degrees to women (1841). Your child would need very good high school grades and college admission test scores to be admitted to either Kenyon or Oberlin.

A Look at 13 Interesting Choices.  is a nonprofit organization that was founded after the publication of a book entitled Colleges That Change Lives, by Loren Pope, a retired New York Times education editor. Updated several times since it was first published, there are now 44 colleges and universities profiled in the book and on the organization’s website. Those that are included are not necessarily famous institutions, but they all care deeply about individual students and strive to make the college into a community to support students. Many of the institutions have engaging and experiential aspects to their programs—such as internships, international and intercultural programs, and service-learning projects.   Most of the institutions are smaller colleges and universities that have proved to be successful at developing students both personally and academically so that they can succeed in life after their undergraduate college years.

Interestingly, 14 of the 44 institutions on the list are located in the Great Lakes states. You should read about them in the book or on the website, because you will want your child to attend one of them if you do. Here are the ones in the Great Lakes states:

Because these institutions are relatively small and thus are not particularly well known outside of their geographic region, it is my feeling that out-of-state students with a good high school record might have a decent chance of being accepted.

2. Colleges with a Special Academic Focus

In an earlier episode of NYCollegeChat, we talked about colleges that have a special academic focus, like the arts or business or engineering. In our two-episode tour of the Great Lakes region, we have already mentioned two institutions that have well-known schools of music as part of the institution: the Jacobs School of Music at Indiana University Bloomington and the Conservatory of Music at Oberlin College. But the Great Lakes region also is home to one of our nation’s finest art colleges: the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC), located adjacent to the world-famous art museum in downtown Chicago. SAIC draws 3,200 students globally into undergraduate and graduate studies in a wide variety of art and design majors, including all of the visual arts plus fashion design, art history, arts administration, architecture, film and animation, art education and art therapy, and more—along with a full array of liberal arts courses. As with all colleges specializing in the arts—whether visual arts, music, or dance—applications require a portfolio of student work. So, only talented students need apply.

The Great Lakes region also is home to one of the relatively few institutions more or less dedicated to the study of engineering: the Milwaukee School of Engineering (MSOE) in Wisconsin. MSOE offers 12 undergraduate engineering majors and four graduate engineering majors. In addition, MSOE offers majors in business, mathematics, and nursing. With an undergraduate enrollment of about 2,500 students, the typical class size is 21 students and typical lab size is 11 students. Its admissions guidelines concerning high school grades and college admission test scores seem quite reasonable, especially for an engineering school, which is typically very hard to be admitted to.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • College life in the middle of a city vs. college life in the middle of nowhere
  • Questions colleges should answer for you, like what their safety statistics are
  • Questions you might want to raise about sensitivity to and accommodations for religious or cultural differences among students

Check out these higher education institutions and programs we mention…

Outside of New York State

Connect with us through…

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

 

Episode 5: Colleges with Special Emphases (Part 2)

We’re continuing our series on understanding the world of college this week by exploring colleges and universities with selected academic specialties.

Regardless of the wide range of subjects most students study in high school, for some students one particular subject is the only reason to come to school. That is one reason that it is so important for high schools to offer a full array of subjects and a broad schedule of after-school activities.

Some students are ready to specialize when it comes to college. What those students have to decide is whether to attend a university—which offers the field of study they are interested in, along with many, many others—or a college that is entirely dedicated to the field of study they are interested in.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…
What parents, teachers, and high school students want from arts education
The truth about taking courses across schools or colleges within a university
The surprising breadth of courses in colleges devoted to the arts

Connect with us through…
Subscribing to NYCollegeChat on iTunes, Spreaker, Stitcher, or TuneIn!
Following us on Twitter @NYCollegeChat
Reviewing parent materials we have available at Policy Studies in Education
Inquiring about our consulting services if you need individualized help
Following us on Facebook as NYCollegeChat

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…
Calling our hotline at 516-900-NYCC
Emailing us at paul@policystudies.org to ask a question if you want us to answer it privately

We’re continuing our series on understanding the world of college this week by exploring colleges and universities with selected academic specialties.

NYCollegeChat Episode 5 Colleges with Special Emphases Part 2NYCollegeChat is now available on iTunes, Spreaker, Stitcher, and TuneIn!

Colleges and Universities with Selected Academic Specialties

Regardless of the wide range of subjects most students study in high school, for some students one particular subject is the only reason to come to school. That is one reason that it is so important for high schools to offer a full array of subjects and a broad schedule of after-school activities.

Some students are ready to specialize when it comes to college. What those students have to decide is whether to attend a university—which offers the field of study they are interested in, along with many, many others—or a college that is entirely dedicated to the field of study they are interested in. As we said in an earlier episode, a university typically has separate colleges or schools within it, each of which focuses on a broad field of study—for example, within the State University of New York at New Paltz, undergraduates can attend the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, the School of Business, the School of Education, the School of Fine and Performing Arts, or the School of Science and Engineering. (Learn more about two-year colleges, four-year colleges, and universities in this episode of the podcast.)

What are the pros and cons of choosing a university or an independent dedicated college? On one hand, a student who ends up wanting to change to a different field of study might have an easier time doing so in a university setting, where that student could end up in an entirely different part of the university. On the other hand, a student who does really well in one field and does not want to spend time studying others might progress quicker, learn more in depth, and be better focused in a college dedicated to that field.

So let’s look at the arts first. Students who are passionate about the arts have quite a number of well-regarded choices. Some schools devoted to the arts are within larger institutions, including the Eastman School of Music at the University of Rochester, the Tisch School of the Arts at New York University, the Conservatory of Music at Oberlin College, the Meadows School of the Arts at Southern Methodist University, and the Jacobs School of Music at Indiana University.

Turning to institutions wholly dedicated to the arts, there is the highly selective Juilliard School here in New York City, well known for its degrees in drama, music, and dance. The School of the Art Institute of Chicago, associated with the famous art museum of the same name, offers degrees in studio art, but also in art history and art education as well as other arts-related specialties. Founded in 1887, Pratt Institute in New York City offers both undergraduate and graduate degrees, with 22 associate’s and bachelor’s degrees in the arts and arts-related fields, including degrees in architecture, graphic design, painting and drawing, illustration, film, photography, digital arts, fashion, interior design, and art history. Rhode Island School of Design offers 15 Bachelors of Fine Arts majors in visual arts and design specialties and a Bachelor of Architecture degree.

Berklee College of Music in Boston, which is dedicated to the study of music, is a bit different from most other music schools because it draws students from around the world to study contemporary, rather than classical, music and offers degrees in a wide range of music specialties, including performance, composition, film scoring, music therapy, music education, production and engineering, and music business. Berklee’s new graduate campus in Valencia, Spain—again, dedicated to the study of music—offers its master’s degrees programs in extraordinary facilities, designed by modern architect Santiago Calatrava, in a setting that showcases global music.

Students who are intrigued by the rigorous technical field of engineering might consider a school of engineering within a large university (many big public universities have them and quite a few private universities also have them), like the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, California Institute of Technology, the University of Texas, Texas A & M University, the University of Illinois, the University of Southern California, Carnegie Mellon University, Cornell University, Columbia University, and many more. But, some smaller colleges have engineering programs as well. Take the example of Manhattan College (in New York City), which has 3,500 students, but offers a School of Engineering with both undergraduate and graduate degrees. Or these students might consider an institution that is dedicated to the study of engineering, like the Milwaukee School of Engineering.

Students who have decided that business is their future can attend business schools that can be found at many public and private universities—some well-known for their undergraduate business schools and some for their graduate business schools—including the University of Pennsylvania, Harvard University, the University of Chicago, Stanford University, New York University, Northwestern University, the University of California at Berkeley, the University of Virginia, and many more. Stand-alone institutions dedicated to the study of business are the other way to go. Students could consider places like Babson College and Bentley University, both private colleges located in Massachusetts.

The two options—a school or college within a larger university vs. a stand-alone college dedicated to one academic field—and these examples will give you some background for thinking about college options when a student is truly interested in one field of study.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • What parents, teachers, and high school students want from arts education
  • The truth about taking courses across schools or colleges within a university
  • The surprising breadth of courses in colleges devoted to the arts

Check out these higher education institutions we mention…

In New York State

Outside of New York State

Connect with us through…

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…