Episode 58: Black and Hispanic Students at Public Flagship Universities

Black and Hispanic Students at Public Flagship Universities on Episode 58 on NYCollegeChat

Listen to the episode in the player, download it here, or subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or TuneIn.

Welcome back to our current series about higher education in the news. We have been talking about news stories of all sorts about colleges—some that might immediately influence your teenager’s decision about where to apply or later about where to attend and others that might take longer to impact your family.

In this episode, we are going to look at an eye-opening article that focuses on the enrollment of black students at public flagship universities in various states. As our regular listeners know, we have spent many episodes praising public flagship universities—especially during our virtual tour of colleges nationwide, where we highlighted every single flagship university in every single state.

We explained that, in many states, the public flagship university is often the place to be, if you graduated from high school in that state. Why? Because it is relatively inexpensive, academically respectable, well regarded across the state and across the country, usually competitive in sports arenas, chocked full of student clubs and activities, within driving distance of home, and a social hub for high school classmates.

We also explained that flagship campuses are more popular in some parts of the country than in others. The notion that they are least popular, we would say, in the Mid-Atlantic and New England regions probably reflects the culture of the Northeast and not the academic quality of the institutions. Perhaps there is just an older and more entrenched tradition of private higher education in the Northeast than there is in other parts of the country.

As we have said before, we think that great flagship campuses in other states are the hidden jewels of the college search for lots of students who never consider them. In other words, we think that students too often overlook great flagship universities outside their home state and choose to attend more expensive private colleges with less academic prestige in their home state.

To be fair, some flagship universities are pricey for out-of-state students, but they are not typically more expensive than private colleges. And, in earlier episodes, we have talked about some reciprocal agreements among states that charge students from their same region a lower price than other out-of-state students (remember the Western Undergraduate Exchange and the Midwest Student Exchange Program, which charge regional students no more than 150 percent of in-state tuition instead of two or three times as much).

So, that’s the background to today’s episode. To sum it up, we love flagship universities.

1. The Hechinger Report’s Investigation

Recently, I read Meredith Kolodner’s well-researched article in The Hechinger Report (December 18, 2015): “Black students are drastically underrepresented at top public colleges, data show.” (The article also appeared in The Huffington Post.) As someone who has been praising flagship universities for some months now and as a concerned taxpayer, I dove into the article. Let me read you several paragraphs in which Ms. Kolodner gives us some key statistics:

On average, just 5 percent of students at the nation’s flagship public universities are black. . . . Even . . . at the University of Virginia, which prides itself on the diversity of its campus, just 8 percent of students are black. Just 5 percent are black Virginians, in a state where 22 percent of public high school graduates are African-American.

Virginia is hardly unusual. At most flagships, the African-American percentage of the student population is well below that of the state’s public high school graduates. Typical are the University of Delaware, with a student body that is 5 percent African-American in a state where 30 percent of public high school graduates are black, and the University of Georgia, where it’s 7 percent compared with 34 percent. (quoted from the article)

Those statistics made me think twice. I almost hoped that the University of Virginia (commonly referred to as UVA) numbers were unusual since we know from our virtual tour that it is one of the most academically prestigious of all flagship universities.

Ms. Kolodner went on to say this:

Flagships matter because they almost always have the highest graduation rates among public colleges in their state — especially for black students — as well as extensive career resources, well-placed alumni networks, a broad range of course selections and high-profile faculty. For state residents, these colleges also offer the most affordable top-quality college education, and usually a path toward better opportunities after college.

We agree: Flagships matter. The article goes on to offer a thought-provoking discussion of how black students are being pushed out of public higher education opportunities, including by rising costs, and of how black students themselves feel on campuses where they are such a small fraction of the student population. The article, which also takes a deeper look at UVA, is well worth reading.

2. The Common Data Set

Wanting to see what the enrollment figures looked like at other flagship universities we have been recommending to students, we decided to take a look. I got the data that we are going to present from a very useful document, which can be found on the websites of most colleges. It is called the Common Data Set, and it is a long set of data covering many aspects of college life, including enrollment and characteristics of admitted students. The Common Data Set is a product of the government-funded Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System (known as IPEDS). I usually found it for a particular college by searching on that college’s website for “Common Data Set.”

In checking information about IPEDS for this episode, I now discover that IPEDS has a great college search function of its own (housed at the National Center for Education Statistics), called College Navigator, which provides the Common Data Set statistics for each college quickly and efficiently in one place. If only I had known! Run—don’t walk—to this website: http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/. This is great information for you and your teenager as you are doing your college search.

3. Statistics from Other Flagships

Let’s look first at the percentage of “black, or African American, non-Hispanic/Latino” students who are “degree-seeking undergraduates,” according to the figures submitted to IPEDS in these exact IPEDS categories. Here are the percentages for some well-known flagship universities that we have discussed in earlier episodes (the data are for the 2014-2015 academic year):

These are large and small flagships, highly selective and less selective flagships, and geographically diverse flagships. I have to say that I was astonished at the tiny fraction of black undergraduates at some of them. While we often looked at the racial/ethnic breakdown of students during our virtual tour of colleges, these small numbers seem to have a bigger impact when they are all lined up together. And, interestingly, I remember some selective private colleges where the percentage of black students was far, far higher than these numbers.

I went on to get the same information for what IPEDS calls “Hispanic/Latino” “degree-seeking undergraduates.” Here are those percentages:

  • The Ohio State University—3%
  • The University of Mississippi—3%
  • University of Michigan—4%
  • University of Massachusetts Amherst—5%
  • Louisiana State University—6%
  • The University of Iowa—6%
  • The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill—7%
  • University of Washington in Seattle—7%
  • University of Colorado Boulder—10%

These percentages aren’t any higher. In fact, when combining the two figures, you get a range of just 8 to 17 percent black and Hispanic/Latino undergraduates at these particular flagship universities.

4. Graduation Rates

Ms. Kolodner’s article also takes up the important concern about whether students who enroll in college actually go on to graduate. Listen to these two paragraphs from her article:

Black and Latino students who have above-average SAT scores go to college at the same rate — 90 percent — as whites. But once enrolled, white students are more likely to finish, in part because they attend more selective colleges, where the resources are better and overall graduation rates are higher.

When black and Latino students with above-average SAT scores go to those selective colleges, their graduation rate is 73 percent, compared to only 40 percent for these above-average-scoring nonwhite students at other colleges. (quoted from the article)

This is just one more reason that low numbers of black and Hispanic/Latino undergraduates at flagship universities is a concern: If more black and Hispanic/Latino students attended flagships, it is likely that more would, in fact, graduate from college. And that is at least as important as getting into college in the first place.

5. What Does This Mean for You

I am not presenting these numbers to condemn these universities for somehow not producing undergraduate student bodies that are more diverse and more representative of black and Hispanic/Latino high school graduates. I do not know what measures they have taken to improve these numbers or even if they believe that these numbers need improving. What I would like to do is give you and your teenager a way to think about these numbers if you are black, Hispanic, or Latino.

First, know that your teenager would be part of a relatively small group of students of the same racial or ethnic background on many of these campuses. That might be fine for your teenager and for your family—especially if your teenager’s high school had a similar look. Or, even if it didn’t. Of course, because most of these flagship universities have tens of thousands of students, that means that there are still hundreds or even thousands of black and Hispanic/Latino students on campus. So those numbers might make your teenager feel comfortable enough.

Second, know that your teenager could be a highly desirable freshman applicant, depending on his or her grades and test scores. My guess is that many of these flagship universities are actively seeking good black and Hispanic/Latino applicants—especially from their own states, but likely also from other states. And, because we have already said that flagship universities are typically excellent academic institutions, they make really attractive choices for your teenager.

Third, know that your teenager might well stand a better chance of graduating from college if he or she attended a great flagship university rather than a smaller, less academically prestigious institution. It might be a bit more expensive for out-of-staters, but the result could be, as they say, priceless.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • When and where to ask a college about enrollment breakdowns
  • When and where to ask a college about graduation rate breakdowns
  • Whether to consider public college systems in a state other than its flagship university

Check out these higher education institutions and organizations we mention…

Outside of New York State

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

  • Leaving a comment here on the show notes for this episode
  • Calling us at (516) 900-NYCC to record a question on our NYCollegeChat voicemail if you want us to answer your question live on our podcast
  • Emailing us at paul@policystudies.org to ask a question if you want us to answer it privately

Connect with us through…

Listen to the episode in the player, download it here, or subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or TuneIn.

Episode 37: Colleges in the Southwest Region—Part I

This is our eleventh episode in our virtual tour of colleges across the U.S. For those of you who have been with us since the beginning, you will recall that we launched the tour to help you find colleges that are appropriate for your child, but that are outside your geographic comfort zone. Because the majority of high school students stay in their home states to attend college, we feel that a lot of appealing—even life-changing—colleges are never even considered by most families. That is a shame.

Virtual audio tour of public colleges and universities in the Southwest Region on the NYCollegeChat podcast

So far, we have toured the Great Lakes region, the Southeast region, the Rocky Mountain region, and the Plains region. This episode takes us to the Southwest.

And, as we are fond of saying, no college has asked us or paid us anything to include it in our virtual tour. These are our picks.

1. The Southwest Region

As we have said, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce) has divided the U.S. into eight regions, with each region’s covering from four to 12 states. In this episode, we will start our examination of the four states in the Southwest region: Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas.

I bet a lot of our listeners here in the Northeast have never thought about sending a child to a college in the Southwest. Perhaps you will think again after today’s episode about public colleges in these states or next week’s episode about private colleges in these states.

2. Flagship Public State Universities

As is our custom, let’s start with this region’s flagship public state universities. Each of the four states has one, as those of you who are regular listeners know by now. And, as is typical, some of them are better known nationally than others. While flagship universities typically have smaller branch campuses in other locations in their states, it is the main location—that is, the flagship of each state’s public system—that we will talk about here because that is the campus that is most respected and most widely recognized, both in the state and certainly outside the state.

Let us remind you of what we have said in other episodes about flagship campuses: They are the place to be, if you graduated from high school in that state. Why? Because they are relatively inexpensive, academically respectable, well regarded across the state and across the country, usually super-competitive in sports arenas, chocked full of student clubs and activities, within driving distance of home, and a social hub for high school classmates. And nowhere is that truer than in the state of Texas.

So, what are these flagship campuses in the Southwest region? They are The University of Arizona in Tucson (UA), The University of New Mexico in Albuquerque (UNM), The University of Oklahoma in Norman (OU), and The University of Texas at Austin (UT Austin)—that is, two cities that epitomize the Southwest desert lifestyle, one great college town located in Tornado Alley, and one state capital that everyone seems to be talking about these days. Let us tell you from personal experience, if you don’t already know, that Austin is a great town with lots going on, including, of course, the annual South by Southwest (SXSW) music, film, and interactive festivals (that’s interactive, as in digital creativity, meaning websites, video games, and new things I don’t understand). Austin has a spread-out feel, with lots of old and new neighborhoods, a beautiful state capitol building, the impressive University, strong businesses, and lots of large hotels and tiny places to eat great barbecue and Tex-Mex cuisine. Albuquerque, in the Land of Enchantment (New Mexico), is in the middle of breathtaking mesas and mountains and the Rio Grande. It has an old Southwest feeling that is distinctive and memorable. The Spanish Colonial and Pueblo Revival architecture of the University fits into picturesque Albuquerque quite well. Old Town, the historic spot where Albuquerque was founded by Spanish settlers in 1706, is filled with museums and shops and places that you would really enjoy visiting.

Turning to the four flagship universities, we can put them into two groups by enrollment size, starting with the smaller universities: UNM with about 18,000 undergraduates and a total of about 26,000 undergraduate, graduate, and professional students and OU with about 20,000 undergraduates and a total of about 30,000 undergraduate, graduate, and professional students. By the way, UNM, a federally designated Hispanic-serving institution (HSI), was one of the first minority-majority universities, with about a 45 percent Hispanic student body and an Anglo student population of just about 35 percent. While UNM and OU are smaller than the other two flagship universities in the Southwest region, they are certainly not small by anyone’s standards. Any new freshman is going to feel that an undergraduate student body of 18,000 or more is huge.

So what about UA with about 33,000 undergraduates and a total of about 42,000 students and UT Austin with about 39,000 undergraduates and a total of about 51,000 students? Though we have already mentioned in our virtual tour some universities with even more undergraduate students than that—namely, the University of Central Florida and The Ohio State University, and there are still more gigantic universities in the episodes coming up—UA and UT Austin would, without a doubt, seem enormous to almost any freshman walking onto those campuses. Of course, with many students, come many opportunities.

Each of these four flagship universities attracts students nationally and internationally. Nonetheless, at UT Austin, about 90 percent of students are Texas residents, and there is a good chance that freshmen will make the trip to Austin with at least a handful of their smartest high school friends—because, for many bright Texas high school students, UT Austin is at the top of their list. Similarly, UNM also has a student body that is about 90 percent home grown. Students will find a bit more geographic diversity at OU and UA, where just about 60 to 65 percent of students are state residents.

In our episodes so far, we have often said that colleges love geographic diversity and that students might be able to get into a better college by looking a bit farther afield at a college that is lacking, but is seeking, that diversity. That is usually true. However, I think it is more difficult than usual for out-of-state students to get into UT Austin—a highly respected public institution, like the University of Virginia or the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill or the University of Michigan, all of which we have talked about in previous episodes. In fact, Texas law almost guarantees that many of its best students stay in the state for college by mandating that public colleges automatically admit a certain percentage of each high school’s top graduates (last year, for UT Austin, that was any student who ranked in the top 7 percent of his or her class at the end of the junior year). I have to believe that the 10 percent of the UT Austin student body that comes from out of state is made up of pretty bright kids, too. Of course, if your teenager is bright, then UT Austin is a fabulous choice.

Each of these flagship universities was founded in the mid- to late 1800s, with UT Austin first in 1839 and the others around 1890. All were founded before statehood—three by their territorial legislature and UT Austin by order of the Congress of the Republic of Texas. This trend, which we also saw in the Rocky Mountain and Plains regions, continues—that is, pioneers and early settlers giving a college education a high priority.

Turning to academics, these flagship universities have from 13 to 21 undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges—from liberal arts and sciences to every kind of career-related field, including, at the undergraduate level, engineering, education, business, journalism and mass communication, fine arts, architecture, and agriculture and life sciences. All of them have a law school and elaborate medical schools/health sciences centers. They are truly one-stop shopping at the undergraduate, graduate, and professional levels.

Perhaps related to its location in Tornado Alley, OU has a College of Atmospheric and Geographic Sciences, with a well-respected School of Meteorology. UA has an impressive College of Optical Sciences, with research in optical engineering, optical physics, photonics, and image science.

UT Austin does something different with its freshmen by putting all of them into the School of Undergraduate Studies, where they explore their interests through a liberal-arts-and-sciences core curriculum of 42 credits. In their freshman year, students take UT’s Signature Course, which is actually an array of 150 course offerings for students to choose from, all of which provide college-level experiences in thinking and writing and speaking and research. Students are encouraged to go outside their comfort zone when choosing from the Signature Courses, which are often interdisciplinary, like Astronomy and the Humanities. UT students leave the School of Undergraduate Studies by the end of their second year to pursue their major course of study. This structure is a comforting idea, given the uncertainty that most entering college freshmen have about their futures.

These four flagship universities offer from about 120 to more than 200 undergraduate degree programs across their numerous undergraduate colleges and schools. The opportunities are almost limitless.

Like all other flagship universities, each of these four has hundreds of student clubs and organizations, including fraternities and sororities—actually more than 1,300 at UT Austin. It would be impossible for your child not to find some organizations he or she would like to join—which is especially important for students on large campuses like these.

Of course, there are also plenty of varsity sports teams—from 19 to 21 women’s and men’s teams. OU and UT Austin play in the Big 12 Conference and UA plays in the Pac-12 Conference—where sports are taken seriously. The winner in national championships and conference titles is UT Austin, with 51 national championships since 1949 and 507 conference titles. Can you say “Hook ’em Horns” or sing “The Eyes of Texas”? As we have said before, participating in intercollegiate sports and, just as much, attending wildly popular sports events are a big part of campus life at schools like these.

Need something more cultural? Each of these flagship universities (like many others) has museums right on the campus. UNM has the Maxwell Museum of Anthropology, which has a “special emphasis on 11,000 years of cultural heritage in the Southwest” (quoted from the website). UA has the Arizona State Museum (an affiliate of the Smithsonian Institution), founded in 1893, which houses the world’s largest collection of Southwest American Indian pottery and basketry. UT Austin has the LBJ Presidential Library, an amazing collection of papers and memorabilia from LBJ’s political career and from the civil rights work he championed.

David L. Boren became president of OU in 1994, after a political career as governor of Oklahoma and U.S. Senator from Oklahoma—the only person to serve in all three jobs. Impressively, he teaches a freshman-level political science course each semester. Here is a paragraph from his website Welcome to OU:

OU’s Fred Jones Museum of Art ranks in the top 5 university art museums in the United States. It received the Weitzenhoffer Collection, the largest gift of French Impressionist art ever given to a public university in the US. The Sam Noble Museum of Natural History is the largest university based museum of its kind in the world. OU’s Bizzell Memorial Library features one of the three largest history of science collections in the world, and is the only place in the United States where you can hold a book with Galileo’s handwriting in your own hands.  (quoted from the website)

In addition to the cultural sites on campus, these universities offer study abroad programs, sometimes with hundreds of choices and certainly all kinds of cultural benefits. OU has its own campus in Arezzo, Italy—The Italian Center of the University of Oklahoma. It offers semester-long and year-long programs, and, if you have ever been to Arezzo, you know how fantastic it would be to study there.

Admittedly, out-of-state tuition in these flagship universities is not cheap, running from about $17,000 to $22,000 per year—two or three times what a state resident would pay. But that is still lower (and sometimes way lower) than most private colleges in your home state—that is, before any financial aid package is figured in. More important, as we have said before, these flagship universities are better academically and more widely recognized than many private colleges in the U.S., and there is no prestige in attending a private college that is not as good as a great public university.

As is getting more and more typical, there are a couple of attractive tuition programs at these universities. UNM has a Finish-in-Four initiative, in which the university will pay any tuition that the student is responsible for in the final semester if the student graduates in eight or fewer semesters. UA guarantees its tuition rate for entering freshmen for eight consecutive semesters. OU offers a flat tuition at 15 credits, with additional credits taken for free (thus encouraging students to take more credits each semester and finish sooner, saving even more money). UT Austin offers a fixed tuition rate, providing rebates if a student enrolled in the program graduates in four years. So, graduating in four years or even sooner—which is good for the university and good for the family—is the theme we see here.

Additionally, UA and UNM are members of the Western Undergraduate Exchange (WUE), a program of the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education (WICHE). WUE allows students who are residents of WICHE states to request a reduced tuition rate of just 150 percent of resident tuition at participating colleges outside of their home state (as we discussed in Episode 33). WUE effectively broadens a student’s opportunities to look at first-rate public institutions in nearby states, without any substantial financial consequences.

As these colleges carefully advertise on their websites, these tuition deals and reciprocal arrangements with other states are not automatic. You have to apply for them, and you sometimes have to apply to your home state first. And, again, space is limited. So look hard at any public universities your child is interested in to see whether there might be similar programs in place for you and, if so, apply early.

By the way, if you want your child to be among the 94 percent who say they believe their degree prepared them for their career or further education, send your child to UNM.

In leaving the flagship universities, let us just say a word or two more about Texas (perhaps because everything is bigger in Texas). While all of the universities we have discussed so far have branch campuses, we should point out that the University of Texas System is actually made up of nine universities and six health institutions, all of which are more like institutions in their own right. UT has huge campuses at Arlington, El Paso, San Antonio, and Dallas, and it is currently merging two of its campuses (Brownsville and Pan American) into a new institution opening this fall as UT Rio Grande Valley. These campuses all have student bodies larger than many flagship campuses in smaller states.

3. Other Public State Universities

In each of these Southwest states, there are also other public universities—not branches of the flagship campus or campuses within the flagship system, but universities in their own right. We would like to focus on two that we think are most likely to attract out-of-state students—one with a long history and one that has seen a lot of changes and increased national visibility in the past decade.

Let’s start with the one with the long history—that is, Texas A&M University, which those of us outside of Texas might think of as one university (Go, Aggies!), but which those of you in Texas know to be a gigantic 11-university system (plus health science center) in cities throughout the state, serving a total of more than 125,000 students. The well-known flagship campus of the Texas A&M University System is in the twin cities of Bryan and College Station, and it was established in 1876.

Established at the same time—that is, during Reconstruction—was Prairie View A&M University, a separate state-supported college for African-American students, which started out as Alta Vista Agricultural & Mechanical College for Colored Youth and later merged with the Prairie View Normal School for training African-American teachers. Today, Prairie View A&M is part of the Texas A&M University System and is one of nine HBCUs (historically black colleges and universities) in Texas, three of which are public. Prairie View has about 7,000 undergraduates and another 1,500 graduate and professional students; about 85 percent are African American, and about 95 percent are Texans. Prairie View offers students both liberal arts degrees and degrees in architecture, education, engineering, agriculture, business, juvenile justice, and nursing. Incidentally, the other four-year public HBCU in Texas is Texas Southern University in Houston, with almost 10,000 total students in 11 colleges and schools. It is one of the largest HBCUs in the country and is the alma mater of much-admired U.S. Congressional Representative Barbara Jordan.

Texas A&M’s flagship campus in College Station serves a total of about 42,000 undergraduate students and another approximately 10,000 graduate and professional students, drawn nationally and internationally. About 95 percent of A&M undergraduates are from Texas. It has 16 undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges, including the only college of veterinary medicine in Texas (and one of the largest nationally). A&M offers more than 120 undergraduate degree programs.

About 25 percent of students in A&M’s freshman class are first-generation college students. Students can participate in more than 800 student organizations and 20 men’s and women’s varsity sports teams. About 25 percent of students participate in intramural sports. Interestingly, A&M was originally a military institution, and today its voluntary Corps of Cadets is second only to the U.S. military service academies in the number of officers commissioned each year.

By the way, Texas has four more public systems of higher education, with the next most widely known likely being the Texas Tech University System. Its main campus in Lubbock serves a total of about 35,000 students. Again, everything is bigger in Texas.

Now let’s turn to the public university that has seen a lot of changes in the past decade, and that is Arizona State University (ASU), with its main campus in Tempe. ASU serves about 50,000 undergraduate, graduate, and professional students in Tempe, about 80 percent of whom are undergraduates—again, a massive campus. Only about 60 percent of ASU students are Arizona residents, and a truly impressive approximately 40 percent are first-generation college students.

ASU’s president, Michael Crow, who came to the University in 2002, has made a successful effort to increase enrollment, especially of Hispanic and black students, and has made it possible for more low-income students to attend ASU by increasing ASU-supplied financial aid to them. Furthermore, he works hard at providing whatever extra help low-income minority students need in order to graduate. President Crow has also increased the number of out-of-state students (especially from California), who pay about double what state residents pay in tuition (about $22,000 compared to $10,000). He encourages innovation among his administrators and is moving forward in using technology to get students through courses faster and more conveniently. (And I have to believe that he is even more dynamic than this paragraph makes him sound.)

Founded as a territorial school in 1885, ASU is now a university known for its Innovation Challenge competitions, a Startup School and a Startup Accelerator for new ventures, an Entrepreneurship Outreach Network, and the Furnace Technology Transfer Accelerator. It offers nine undergraduate, graduate, and professional colleges and schools on the Tempe campus, including the nation’s first School of Sustainability, established in 2006, with 99 percent of that School’s bachelor’s degree graduates currently employed or pursuing graduate degrees. And, in the midst of all that, it offers nine men’s and 12 women’s Sun Devils sports teams and more than 1,000 student organizations.

Perhaps to sum up President Crow’s vision, “ASU is a comprehensive public research university measured not by whom it excludes, but by whom it includes and how they succeed…” (quoted from the website).

In closing our look at public universities, we would like to mention one more public HBCU, and that is Langston University in Oklahoma, with its main campus in Langston, just north of Oklahoma City, serving about 1,800 students. Its mostly undergraduate students study in 47 undergraduate degree programs and nine graduate degree programs in six schools, including liberal arts and education, business, health professions, and agriculture. About 80 percent of its students are black, and just about 60 percent are Oklahoma residents. Its tuition is very reasonable, in case you are looking for an HBCU in the Southwest.

As we have said before, all of these public universities (and there are many more in these states than those we mentioned here, especially in Texas) would cost an out-of-state student more than a public university in his or her own state, but less than most private colleges. So, consider looking at public universities, beyond just the flagship university, for the special programs or the appealing locations or the sense of history and tradition that they offer.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • Why flagship universities seem unusual to New Yorkers
  • Why there are so many tuition incentive programs
  • How attractive these campuses and cities really are

Check out these higher education institutions and organizations we mention…

In New York State

Outside of New York State

Learn more about these topics in previous episodes…

Connect with us through…

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

  • Leaving a comment below

Episode 35: Colleges in the Plains Region—Part I

This is our ninth episode in our virtual tour of colleges across the U.S. We started the tour to try to broaden your horizons about colleges that might be appealing to your child, but are outside your geographic comfort zone. You might recall that we have discussed the fact that the vast majority of high school students—say, about 70 percent—go to college in their home states. While there is nothing really wrong with that, we would like you to know that there are a lot of great colleges out there—ones that you have never heard of and even ones that we had never heard of—and we would like you to consider whether one of them could make all the difference for your child.

So far, we have toured the Great Lakes region, the Southeast region, and the Rocky Mountain region. Today, we head just east from the Rocky Mountains to look at the Plains region.

Virtual tour of public colleges in the Plains region on NYCollegeChat, a weekly podcast about the world of college

As we say in every one of these episodes, no college has asked us or paid us anything to name it. These are entirely our own choices.

And to repeat: First, when we talk about the universities in this episode, we are going to be talking about the main campus—that is, the one that most people associate with that institution. Second, because enrollment figures are not necessarily comparable as reported by various colleges, you should use the figures we provide here just as an approximation of the actual campus enrollment, but one that is good enough to help you understand whether the student body is the right size for your child—roughly, small, medium, or large.

1. The Plains Region

As we have said, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce) has divided the U.S. into eight regions, with each region’s covering from four to 12 states. In this episode, we will start our examination of the seven states of the Plains region: Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Missouri, Iowa, and Minnesota.

If you have never considered any college in this north central part of our country, maybe this is your wake-up call. Perhaps you will reconsider after today’s episode about public colleges in these states or next week’s episode about private colleges in these states.

2. Flagship Public State Universities

As we always do on our tour, let’s start with this region’s flagship public state universities. Each of the seven states has one, as those of you who are regular listeners know by now. And, as always, some of them are better known nationally than others. They are all good schools, and some are great schools. While some of these universities have smaller branch campuses in other locations in their states, it is the main location—that is, the flagship of each state’s public system—that we will talk about here because that is the campus that is most respected and most widely recognized, both in the state and outside the state.

Let us remind you of what we have said in other episodes about flagship campuses: They are the place to be, if you graduated from high school in that state. Why? Because they are relatively inexpensive, academically respectable, well regarded across the state and across the country, super-competitive in sports arenas, chocked full of student clubs and activities, within driving distance of home, and a social hub for high school classmates.

So, what are these flagship campuses in the Plains region? They are the University of Kansas in Lawrence (KU), University of Nebraska–Lincoln (UNL), University of South Dakota in Vermillion (USD), University of North Dakota in Grand Forks (UND), University of Missouri in Columbia (commonly referred to as Mizzou), University of Iowa in Iowa City (UI), and University of Minnesota Twin Cities—that is, in the “twin cities” of Minneapolis and St. Paul (U of M). These universities are located in different kinds of settings—from ideal small college towns (or as U.S. News and World Report once called Columbia, Missouri, “the quintessential college town”) to substantial cities (including two state capitals). The cost-of-living is attractively low in most of these locations. Despite being in the center of the country, there is water quite close by some of these campuses—the Missouri River and the Mississippi River, for example—and there are winter sports opportunities not far off.

We can put these universities in three groups by enrollment size, starting with the smallest: USD with about 7,500 undergraduates and a total of 10,000 undergraduate, graduate, and professional students and UND with about 11,500 undergraduates and a total of 15,000 students. While relatively small for the flagship public state universities in the Plains regions—and, indeed, in most regions—they are not actually small. Any incoming freshman is going to feel that an undergraduate student body of 7,500 or more is really pretty large.

Next in size come KU with about 18,000 undergraduates and a total of 23,000 students, UNL with about 20,000 undergraduates and a total of 25,000 students, and UI with about 22,500 undergraduates and a total of 30,000 students. Any incoming freshman is going to feel like these undergraduate student bodies are truly large.

And finally we come to Mizzou with about 28,000 undergraduates and a total of 36,000 students and U of M with about 32,000 undergraduates and a total of 49,000 students. Though we have already mentioned in our virtual tour some universities with even more undergraduate students than that—namely, the University of Central Florida, The Ohio State University, and Michigan State University, and there are still more huge universities in the episodes coming up—it is safe to say that Mizzou and the U of M would seem gigantic to almost any freshman we can imagine. With that said, both universities offer so much to students that a moment of being overwhelmed upon arrival on campus is likely worth it.

Interestingly, about 25 percent of students at U of M and at UI are first-generation college students; for students whose parents had little or no college education themselves, these very large campuses could seem imposing to the whole family.

Each of these flagship universities was founded in the mid- to late 1800s, with Mizzou first in 1839 and UND last in 1883. Three were founded before their territory even became a state: UND, USD, and U of M (and UI was founded just two months after statehood). This trend, which we also saw in the Rocky Mountain region, continues to impress me—that pioneers, just establishing themselves, would give a college education such a high priority.

Mizzou was established in 1839 by 900 citizens who pledged both money and land to win the competition for where to locate the new state university; it became the first public university west of the Mississippi River and the first state university in the land that made up the Louisiana Purchase, which Thomas Jefferson had made back in 1803. KU was founded in 1866 by abolitionists, who had come to Kansas in 1854 to make sure that Kansas entered the U.S. as a free state and not as a slave state. UND was founded as a College of Arts and Sciences, plus a Normal School for the education of teachers—not as an agricultural school or only a normal school, as other colleges were typically being established.

UNL was founded in 1869 as an institution open both to women and to students of all races from the first day—at a time when many colleges were not open to either. When UI started holding classes in 1855, 41 of the 124 students were women—fully one-third of the student body, which had to be very unusual for that time in our nation’s history. Some years later, UI was the first public university to award a law degree to an African American (in 1870) and to a woman (in 1873). And it was the first public university to allow an African-American athlete to play on a varsity team (in 1895). That is a lot of history and pioneering spirit to be proud of.

Turning to academics, these flagship universities have from 8 to 16 undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools and colleges—from liberal arts and sciences to every kind of career-related field, including, at the undergraduate level, engineering, education, business, journalism, fine and performing arts, architecture, and agricultural sciences and natural resources.

UNL has a fascinating and highly selective program that is part of the University Honors Program: the Jeffrey S. Raikes School of Computer Science and Management (the average entering freshman SAT critical reading and mathematics score is 1480 and average ACT score is 33.5). The School draws on the resources of several UNL colleges and offers an interdisciplinary, project-oriented curriculum, including a year-long capstone project for seniors in cooperation with an actual business.

Mizzou opened the world’s first journalism school in 1908. The school is still operating and is one of the finest in the nation. It offers both undergraduate and graduate degrees and is known for its Missouri Method of placing students in real media outlets—television, radio, and newspapers)—to learn their craft.

UI was the first university to create a college-level department of education, which became the birthplace of the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills (you might have taken these standardized tests as a child yourself), the GED as an alternative to a standard high school diploma, and the ACT for college admission.

These flagship universities offer from about 85 to 190 undergraduate majors across their numerous undergraduate colleges and schools. So, clearly, more than one of these universities have whatever major your child wants to study in whatever college or school is of interest within the university.

And don’t forget UI’s famous Iowa Writers’ Workshop (based in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences), which offered the first creative writing degree in the U.S. in 1936. At the graduate level, the program leads to a Master of Fine Arts in English and admits 25 students in fiction and 25 in poetry each year. The good news for undergraduates is that the program offers undergraduate courses during the year and summer courses as well. The Iowa Writers’ Workshop has produced 17 Pulitzer Prize winners, five U.S. Poets Laureate, and a bunch of other winners of impressive awards.

Like other flagship universities we have talked about in previous episodes, each of these seven has many student clubs and organizations, typically including fraternities and sororities—in fact, from about 120 student organizations (which already sounds like a lot) to more than 800 at U of M. It would be impossible for your child not to find some organizations he or she would like to join—which is especially important for students on one of the larger campuses.

Of course, there are also plenty of varsity sports teams—from about from 15 to 23, with women’s teams sometimes being more numerous than men’s teams. UNL and U of M play in the Big Ten Conference, where sports are taken pretty seriously. KU’s first basketball coach in 1898 just happened to be the guy who invented basketball: James Naismith, who invented the game in Massachusetts in 1891. By the way, KU is proud of its five national basketball championships—and its five national debate championships.

Plus, there are club sports and intramurals to choose from. At UI, 60 percent of the students participate in these non-varsity sports.

Each of these flagship universities is well enough known to attract students from virtually all 50 states and from as many as 60 to more than 140 foreign countries; nonetheless, most of the undergraduate students are home grown—ranging from about 55 percent to 70 percent of the students, with only UND falling to just about 40 percent of students being from North Dakota. In fact, at UI, about 75 percent of students come from either Iowa or Illinois; at U of M, about 80 percent come from Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, or Wisconsin (you will see why in a minute). UI and U of M are two excellent universities that are not pulling in many students from most states in the U.S.

A solid application from outside of the state would be viewed with interest at likely all of these flagship universities. As we have said before, colleges like to have geographic diversity in the student body.

Furthermore, your child could get a great education at a cost lower than most private colleges in your home state—that is, before any financial aid package is figured in. More important, as we have said before, these flagship universities are better academically and more widely recognized than many private colleges in the U.S., and there is no prestige in attending a private college that is not as good as a great public university. And you have several great public universities to choose from in the Plains states.

In wrapping up, let’s look at a couple of interesting tuition programs. KU fixes students’ annual four-year tuition when they enter their freshman year; for parents, it is certainly nice to know that the tuition will not get any higher year by year. (KU is not the only college that does this, so look for others that do.) One thing that might save on tuition is that UNL guarantees the availability of all courses required for a degree or reasonable substitutions so that a student can finish in four years and graduate. Because not graduating in four years costs money!

USD permits children of its alumni/alumnae to pay the in-state tuition rate—no matter where the children live; and, USD gives Minnesota students a tuition rate that is just barely higher than the in-state rate. UND also has quite a few deals in place: It is a member of the Western Undergraduate Exchange and the Midwest Student Exchange Program (both of which provide substantial tuition breaks to students from member states, as we discussed in Episode 33), and it has a very attractive Contiguous Residency rate for students from South Dakota, Montana, and especially Minnesota. Finally, the U of M offers in-state tuition to students from North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wisconsin as well as free tuition for credits in excess of 13 per term.

These deals seem outstanding to us, and they effectively broaden a student’s opportunities to look at first-rate public institutions in nearby states, without any substantial financial consequences. As these colleges carefully advertise on their websites, these tuition deals and reciprocal arrangements with other states are not automatic. You have to apply for them, and you sometimes have to apply to your home state first. And, again, space is limited. So look hard at any public universities your child is interested in to see whether there might be similar programs in place for you and, if so, apply early.

By the way, if you want your child to be among the 97 percent who get a job or an acceptance to graduate school when he or she graduates from college, send your child to USD. Or, if you want your child to be one of the 9 out of 10 graduates who say they would attend their college all over again, send your child to UND.

When we attended the National Association for College Admission Counseling’s college fair in New York City in April, we spoke with Suzanne Sholes, Assistant Director in the UND Office of Admissions. Suzanne offered the following audio pitch for her alma mater for NYCollegeChat. (Be sure to listen to it in our recorded episode.)

At the same college fair, we spoke with Laura Goddard, a University of Iowa Senior Admission Counselor, whose recruiting territory is New York and New Jersey.   Laura did the following audio pitch for UI for NYCollegeChat. (Be sure to listen to it in our recorded episode.)

3. Other Public State Universities

In these seven Plains states, there are also other public universities—some are branches of the flagship campus, but others are universities in their own right. I think the two that are most likely to attract out-of-state students because they are probably better known nationally than many of the others are Iowa State University (ISU) and Kansas State University (commonly known as K-State).

Founded in 1858 as Iowa Agricultural College and Model Farm, Iowa State is located in Ames, which is a great college town, according to many rankings of these things: great public schools, safe community, clean air, and lots to do. Actually a bit larger than the University of Iowa, Iowa State has an undergraduate student enrollment of about 29,000, with another 5,000 or so graduate and professional students. Undergraduates choose among about 100 majors spread over six undergraduate colleges. The College of Agricultural and Life Sciences has an almost 97 percent career placement rate and is the alma mater of famed scientist George Washington Carver—ISU’s first African-American student and later faculty member. The College of Engineering is one of the largest in the country and offers more than 60 student engineering organizations. ISU’s graduate College of Veterinary Medicine was the first public veterinary school (1879). With over 800 student organizations and 18 varsity sports teams, Iowa State is a well-rounded place to be for the students it draws from all 50 states and more than 100 foreign countries. About 60 percent of its students are Iowa residents. When you read the website, you will see a list of accomplishments in science and technology that I can barely understand, but are certainly impressive.

Kansas State University officially opened in 1863 as Kansas Agricultural College. It was the second public college to admit men and women equally. Located in Manhattan, a classic college town, K-State enrolls about 20,000 undergraduates and another 4,000 or so graduate and professional students, drawn nationally and internationally; it is just as large as the University of Kansas. It offers its undergraduates a choice of 250 majors and options. K-State has nine colleges, including a College of Veterinary Medicine and a College of Technology and Aviation at its Salina campus. With more than 475 student organizations, 16 varsity sports teams, more than 20 competitive club sports, and 40 intramural sports, there is plenty to do at K-State. An important part of its undergraduate curriculum is the “K-State 8,” which are eight areas of study that are required of all students and are designed to broaden students’ perspectives beyond their major. The eight are aesthetic interpretation, human diversity within the U.S., ethical reasoning and responsibility, global issues and perspectives, and the more standard math, science, social sciences, and history. It’s a real liberal arts education, which students get prior to any specialization in a major. K-State has rolling admissions, so that could be a plus in your child’s college application process.

Though they don’t have the national visibility of Iowa State and K-State, both North Dakota State University (NDSU) and South Dakota State University (SDSU)—as large or larger than the flagship universities in those states—have plenty of students, majors, student organizations, and varsity sports teams to be appealing choices. Though they draw students nationally and internationally, about 60 percent of SDSU students are South Dakota residents and about 40 percent of NDSU students are North Dakota residents (though just as many students come to NDSU from Minnesota as from North Dakota).

In closing our look at public universities, we would like to mention two HBCUs (historically black colleges and universities) in Missouri: Harris-Stowe State University in St. Louis and Lincoln University in Jefferson City, Missouri’s capital. Harris-Stowe State University evolved from its beginnings as two normal schools for educating teachers—Harris Teachers College for educating white teachers (founded in 1857) and Stowe Teachers College for educating black teachers (founded in 1890), named for abolitionist and author Harriet Beecher Stowe. Originally operated by the Board of Education of the St. Louis Public Schools, the two teacher education schools were merged in 1954 as public schools were beginning to integrate. In 1979, the merged college became part of Missouri’s state system of public higher education. Though broadening its offerings beyond education, Harris-Stowe does have a unique undergraduate degree in Urban Education, designed to prepare non-teaching staff to work on education issues in urban settings. In addition to its College of Education, Harris-Stowe has a College of Arts and Sciences and the Anheuser-Busch School of Business, and it offers 14 undergraduate programs, mostly in education and business. With just over 1,500 undergraduates, Harris-Stowe offers a much smaller alternative to a large public university.

Lincoln University was founded as Lincoln Institute “by the men of the 62nd and 65th United States Colored Infantries and their white officers, for the special benefit of freed African Americans” (quoted from the website). It became a Missouri public institution in 1879, offering primarily education, industrial, and agricultural courses. Lincoln now offers 50 undergraduate degree programs spread across the College of Arts and Letters, College of Behavioral and Technological Sciences, College of Agricultural and Natural Sciences, and College of Professional Studies (for business, education, and nursing). It also offers master’s degrees in business, education, and the social sciences. Lincoln has an undergraduate student enrollment of about 2,800, with a couple hundred more graduate students. The undergraduate students on the main campus are about 45 percent black and about 45 percent white, and about 80 percent of them are from Missouri (with most of the rest from surrounding states).

As we have said before, all of these public universities (and there are many more in these states than those we mentioned here) would cost an out-of-state student more than a public university in his or her own state, but less than most private colleges. So, consider looking at public universities beyond just the flagship university, for the special programs or the appealing locations or the sense of history and tradition that they offer.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

Check out these higher education institutions and organizations we mention…

Outside of New York State

Learn more about these topics in previous episodes…

Connect with us through…

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

  • Leaving a comment below

Episode 1: Public, Private, and Proprietary Colleges

This episode is part of our series on understanding the world of college. In this episode, we talk about the differences between public, private, and proprietary colleges.

For detailed show notes including links to all the colleges mentioned in this episode, visit http://usacollegechat.org/1.

NYCollege Chat is a weekly podcast for parents and high school students about the world of college, brought to you by Policy Studies in Education.

Connect with us! Follow us on Facebook or Twitter as NYCollegeChat. Contact us with questions at 516-900-NYCC.

Welcome to the first episode of NYCollegeChat, a weekly podcast for New York State parents and high school students about the world of college. NYCollegeChat is a program of Policy Studies in Education and is hosted by Regina Paul and Marie Segares.

This episode is part of our series on understanding the world of college and is focused on the differences among public, private, and proprietary colleges.

NYCollegeChat Public, Private, and Proprietary CollegesPublic College Funding

Public colleges are paid for, at least in part, by state and local governments—that means, by your taxes—primarily for the benefit of their own residents.

States fund public colleges. New York has the State University of New York, with its 64 two-year and four-year campuses. Some states have more than one system of colleges, like California’s University of California campuses, California State University campuses, and California Community Colleges campuses.

Some local governments, like big cities and counties, can afford to help fund their own public higher education—like the City University of New York or Dallas County Community College District. Even in those cases, however, the state governments provide part of the funding, at least in some cases.

But even with public colleges that are supported by tax dollars, student tuition is a major source of revenue.

2. Public College Enrollment and Tuition

Public colleges usually have a large student enrollment—larger than most, but not all, private colleges.

Public colleges have lower tuition than private colleges, so the cost of attending a public college is lower than attending a private college, unless a student has been awarded a generous scholarship by a private college. Of course, students can be awarded scholarships by public colleges, too, making the cost of attending a public college even more attractive.

3. Attitudes About Private Colleges

Private colleges, which are funded by the tuition of its students and by donations from its alumni and others, are often seen as being more prestigious or as being “better” colleges than public colleges. The fact is the some private colleges are indeed better than some public colleges; another fact is that some public colleges are better than some private colleges.

What is “better”? Students are smarter. Professors are better educated. Classes are smaller. Extracurricular activities are more available. Campus facilities are more impressive. Alumni are more successful. The fact is that some public colleges beat some private colleges in all these areas, so it pays to know as much as you can about what a variety of colleges have to offer your child.

4. Proprietary Colleges

Public and private colleges are nonprofit organizations whose first responsibility is to their students. Proprietary colleges are profit-making organizations whose first responsibility is to its owners and stockholders.

That does not mean that proprietary colleges provide a bad education; in fact, some provide a very good education.

You should have a close look at any proprietary colleges your child is interested in. Check out their majors, their courses, their faculty, their costs, and their record of success.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • Great public colleges you might consider
  • Public and private college names that are misleading
  • The special public–private partnership that is Cornell University (Ithaca, New York), made up of 3 public colleges and 4 private colleges

Check out these higher education institutions we mention…

In New York State

Outside of New York State

Connect with us through…

  • Following us on Facebook

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…