Episode 81: Assignment #1–Expanding, Not Narrowing, the College Search

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This series is entitled The Search Begins and, as we have said, it is aimed directly at those of you who are parents of juniors, and it is designed to help you all navigate summer tasks related to college applications in the fall. (Of course, it never hurts parents of freshmen and sophomores to get a head start on the college admissions game. So, stick with us during these summer episodes.)

Today’s topic focuses on something that you are just about to do totally wrong. Furthermore, our advice on this topic probably runs counter to what many “experts” are telling you to do right now, which is to start narrowing your list of colleges so that your teenager can get ready to apply in the fall.

In this episode, we are going to take the position that you should do the exact opposite, which is to start expanding your teenager’s list of colleges immediately so that you all are truly ready to narrow it in the fall. While that might seem unnecessary–even wasteful, given the thousand things you are trying to do this summer–we would contend that expanding the options now could make the difference between an okay college choice for your teenager and a great college choice for your teenager when it is time to accept a college’s offer next spring. Here’s why.

Episode 81: Assignment 1--Expanding, Not Narrowing, The College Search on USA CollegeChat podcast, with free printable

1. One More Research Study

Nicholas W. Hillman, an assistant professor at the University of Wisconsin–Madison (a great public flagship university, which we discussed in Episode 27) has written a recent paper, published in the American Educational Research Journal and entitled “Geography of College Opportunity: The Case of Education Deserts.” Catherine Gewertz reported on Hillman’s paper recently in the High School & Beyond blog in Education Week (“Why College Access Depends on Your ZIP Code,” June 24, 2016).

You loyal listeners might remember that we first met Professor Hillman back in Episode 66 when we talked about his earlier report entitled Education Deserts: The Continued Significance of “Place” in the Twenty-First Century (co-authored with Taylor Weichman). One statistic that the authors quoted in that report is this: About 57 percent of incoming freshmen at public four-year colleges attend a college within 50 miles of home. Now, think about that from a freshman’s point of view. If you are a freshman standing on your four-year public college campus, more than half of your classmates live within 50 miles of where you are standing. Clearly, those students did not get outside of their “geographic comfort zone,” which is one of our most talked about and least favorite concepts here at USACollegeChat. (Remember that about 70 percent of high school graduates attend college in their home state. That’s just too many kids staying within their geographic comfort zone, in our opinion.)

This time around, Hillman maps both public and private two-year and four-year colleges and universities in 709 “commuting zones” across the U.S.–that is, in 709 bunches of mostly contiguous counties where people live and work. And, when I say “maps,” I mean that he locates the colleges and universities on a map of the U.S. and colors in the commuting zones where they are located so that anyone can see at a glance which commuting zones have a lot of colleges (five or more is the top of his scale) and which don’t have even one.

We are going to skip over private two-year colleges, inasmuch as they are the rarest of college types, and look first at public two-year colleges. Looking at Hillman’s map, we notice that there are relatively fewer public two-year colleges west of the Mississippi River until you get to the Far West and Southwest border states. Turning to public four-year colleges, we notice that there are even fewer public four-year colleges than public two-year colleges in the Plains and Rocky Mountain states. And finally, coming to private four-year colleges, we notice that the coverage is especially good east of the Mississippi–particularly in New England and the Mid-Atlantic states–and again in parts of the Far West.

So, where is the “education desert”? The maps would say, generally speaking, that it is in the Rocky Mountain and Plains states. What that means is that college students who live there are likely to have fewer nearby options than students in other commuting zones–say, those in the Northeast. Of course, even in the Northeast, you might live in a particular commuting zone that just doesn’t have many colleges. And that matters because so many kids stay close to home for college–perhaps too close.

But that’s not the worst of it. Gewertz explains:

Hillman found that zones of opportunity put specific groups at a disadvantage. Latino and African-American communities tend to have the fewest colleges, and less-selective colleges, nearby, while white and Asian communities tend to have more colleges, and more selective institutions, nearby to choose from. . . .   Hillman argues that most policy that seeks to improve college access focuses on the process of opportunity–with initiatives that aim to get more information into students’ hands, so they can make good college choices–instead of the geography of opportunity. (quoted from the article)

Well, now we have a societal problem as well as an individual student problem. As Hillman noted in his first report, the college decisions of students from working-class homes and the college decisions of students of color are most negatively affected by home-to-college distance. So, when it turns out that there are relatively fewer college options and relatively fewer selective college options in Latino and African-American communities and when we know that lots of those kids do not travel very far to attend college, for whatever reason, those students end up not having the range of college choices that they deserve.

2. Your Assignment #1

Download the Assignment #1 printable worksheet

Why are we telling you this? Because all of you should expand the college options for your teenager before you narrow them, and this is especially true if you live in an area that has few nearby colleges or few good nearby colleges. Whether you are Latino, African American, Asian, or white, those of you living in an education desert must look outside your geographic area in order to find a choice of good options for your teenager. Why should you be content with the only option in town no matter how good it is? For many of you, the chances are that it is not good enough.

But, to repeat, this advice is not just for those of you living in education deserts. This advice is for all of you who are busy making up a short list of colleges for your child to visit this summer and apply to in the fall. It simply is not time yet to be making up that short list, to be narrowing down the choices, to be closing off opportunities, and to be settling either for colleges that are nearby or for colleges that you already know about. It is unnecessarily soon–even for those of you who want to look at an Early Decision or Early Action option.

So, since it is July 1 and your teenager might have a bit of free time, we are ready to give him or her–and you–an assignment every week until September. The more you can get your teenager to do the work, the easier it will be for you; however, you will need to provide some life experience and adult judgment throughout the assignments. We do guarantee that you both will be better equipped by September 1 to start the actual college application process.

We thought hard about what your first summer assignment should be and settled on this: With your teenager, listen to our virtual nationwide college tour (Episodes 27 through 53) again?or for the first time?or skim the show notes if you prefer. By the way, these episodes do a good job of differentiating between the public and private colleges, which could well be one of the first decisions you will make when it is time to shorten your teenager’s list in September.

Together, choose at least one college in every state to put on your teenager’s list. Put those 50 on what we will call “your teenager’s long summer list of college options.” Just add them to any colleges you already have on the list.

Okay, if that’s too outlandish, try this: Choose at least one college in each of 25 states of your choice to put on your teenager’s list. Heck, that’s only half the states. You are getting off easy. Put those on your teenager’s long summer list of college options.

Still too tough? How about this: Choose at least two colleges in every geographic region of the U.S. to put on your teenager’s long summer list of college options. Remember that the Bureau of Economic Analysis (an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce) has divided the U.S. into eight regions, with each region’s covering four to 12 states. So, that would give you 16 colleges–plus, let’s say, add two extra colleges in your home state for good measure.

But wait: Put five public flagship universities on your teenager’s long summer list of college options. Any five. You choose. This will ensure that your teenager has some great public options to consider, too. As we have said before, public flagship universities might be the hidden jewels in the college landscape.

And those of you who are longtime listeners know that this piece of advice is coming: Choose at least one college not in the U.S. to put on your teenager’s long summer list of college options. The global future is here. Join it.

Now that you have the long summer list of 20 or 30 or 40 or, better yet, 50 colleges, have your teenager read about each one on the college’s website before talking with you and recommending whether it should be kept on the list. Believe me, you can learn a lot from reading a college website. Furthermore, you can learn not only about that one college, but also about colleges in general and what to look for on the next website. It’s an education in itself.

Our virtual tour gave you a lot of the information you should consider already, but let your teenager confirm it and look further into particular things that interest him or her about the college. Make sure your teenager checks out at least these topics:

  • Enrollment, broken down by undergraduate and graduate (if any) students
  • Retention and graduation rates (search the site for “common data set” or go to College Navigator, sponsored by the National Center for Education Statistics)
  • The history of the college (always my favorite topic)
  • Academic divisions in the institution (that is, colleges or schools within a university)
  • Academic departments and majors offered
  • Study abroad options
  • Extracurricular activities (including fraternities and sororities)
  • Intercollegiate and intramural sports
  • Tuition and housing costs (of course)

Finally, make sure that your teenager writes down (or makes a spreadsheet of) the information they find on each college. Believe me, after about four colleges, it’s impossible to remember which college has which attractive and unattractive features.

Personally, I wouldn’t have your teenager start poring over admission standards just yet. I would rather he or she look at the range of great opportunities out there and perhaps get a bit motivated by what those websites offer. Your teenager needs an education about higher education first. Some of those websites are so good, in fact, that they make me want to go back to college.

And, by the way, I wouldn’t have your teenager start looking at two-year colleges yet, either. Those of you who listen to us know that we have some reservations about two-year colleges, especially for students who have just graduated from high school and are moving directly into college full time. We know that they are a great choice for saving money and for helping kids who need a bit more maturity or a bit more academic preparation, but we worry because the transfer rates to four-year colleges are scandalously low, and we worry about what opportunities that fact closes off for too many kids. Two-year colleges can easily be added to the list in September, because we are assuming that the choice of a two-year college is largely affected by geography and that students are most likely to attend the one closest to them.

So, what is the point of today’s episode? It is simply that expanding your options now–before narrowing them in the fall–is a way to let both you and your teenager consider colleges you have never thought about. That’s because there are some really interesting ones out there, including perhaps the one that is best for your teenager.

Depending where you live, here are a few public and private choices you probably aren’t thinking about (some that are very selective, and others that are not):

By the way, I really do not want to hear one more of my friends here in New York say, “Oh, she can just go to Binghamton. It’s a good school.” With apologies to Binghamton, which is a fine state university in upstate New York, I would like my friends to look around first. I would like many more colleges on their teenager’s long list. I would like many colleges on that list to be outside New York State. I would like some of them to be outside the Northeast. I would like some of them to be public and some of them to be private. Binghamton isn’t going anywhere. It will still be there in the fall.

Download the Assignment #1 printable worksheet

The Kindle ebook version of our book, How To Find the Right College, is on sale for $1.99 all summer long! Read it on your Kindle device or download the free Kindle app for any tablet or smartphone. The book is also available as a paperback workbook.

Ask your questions or share your feedback by…

  • Leaving a comment on the show notes for this episode at http://usacollegechat.org/episode81
  • Calling us at (516) 900-6922 to record a question on our USACollegeChat voicemail if you want us to answer your question live on our podcast

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Episode 53: Colleges in New York State–Part III

Listen to the episode in the player, download it here, or subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or TuneIn.

Recently, we have brought our virtual tour back home—here to New York State. We have looked at public four-year colleges and at nationally known private universities.

Virtual tour of private colleges in New York State on NYCollegeChat podcast Episode 53

This week, we are going to continue our examination of private options in New York. Let us say again, that the private institutions we will be discussing in this episode will be only a sample of the more than 100 private colleges and universities in New York. So, you out-of-staters, here is your chance to move outside your geographic comfort zone and to take a look at the many options New York offers. Today, we will check out some relatively small liberal arts institutions and then some higher education institutions with a special academic focus.

As we are now saying for a final time as we bring our virtual tour to a close, no college has asked us or paid us anything to include it. These are our own choices.

1. Liberal Arts Institutions

Let’s shine our spotlight on seven smallish liberal arts institutions, four upstate and three downstate, but north of New York City. Let’s start upstate, with Colgate University in Hamilton, Hamilton College in Clinton, and Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs. These upstate small towns are lovely—especially beautiful in the fall and before the snow comes. In many ways, they are perfect college locations—especially great for students who want that gracious and idyllic ivy-covered campus with handsome buildings in a safe and slightly isolated environment. Saratoga Springs, just north of Albany, is a particularly appealing town. You might know it as home to the famous racetrack and summer home to the New York City Ballet and Philadelphia Orchestra and, way back, to lots of wealthy New Yorkers. Our fourth upstate choice is Union College in Schenectady, which gives students an attractive campus, but in more of an urban setting.

Let’s begin with Colgate University—not a liberal arts “college,” but rather a small liberal arts university, which was founded in 1819 and today enrolls almost 2,900 undergraduates only. Both the students, who are drawn internationally, and the faculty members are about 25 percent multicultural. As befits a small liberal arts institution, Colgate has an enviable 9:1 student-to-faculty ratio.

Colgate’s undergraduates study in 54 majors, which come from a strong and broad liberal arts Core Curriculum. Students are required to take four courses in their first two years: Legacies of the Ancient World, Challenges of Modernity, Communities and Identities, and Scientific Perspectives on the World. Students are also required to take one course with a Global Engagements designation and six more courses from three liberal arts and sciences areas. Colgate offers more than 180 student organizations and 25 varsity sports teams.

Admitted students this fall had an average high school GPA of 3.8 and a combined SAT critical reading and math score of 1405. About 85 percent ranked in the top tenth of their high school graduating class. Interestingly, about 55 percent came from public high schools, while about 45 percent came from private high schools. Tuition and fees at Colgate run about $50,000 per year—quite high, to be sure, but like many other private institutions we have seen.

Hamilton College has a fascinating origin, and you all know that I love college histories. So here it is:

Hamilton College had its beginnings in a plan of education drawn up by Samuel Kirkland, missionary to the Oneida Indians. The heart of the plan was a school for the children of the Oneidas and of the white settlers, who were then streaming into central New York from New England in search of new lands and opportunities in the wake of the American Revolution.

In 1793 the missionary presented his proposal to President George Washington in Philadelphia, who “expressed approbation,” and to Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton, who consented to be a trustee of the new school, to which he also lent his name. The Hamilton-Oneida Academy was chartered soon thereafter. On July 1, 1794, in colorful ceremonies attended by a delegation of Oneida Indians, the cornerstone was laid by Baron von Steuben, inspector general of the Continental Army and “drillmaster” of Washington’s troops during the War for Independence.

The academy remained in existence for nearly 20 years. It faltered, almost failed, and never came to serve Samuel Kirkland’s original purpose, which was to help the Oneidas adapt to a life in settled communities. In fact, few Oneidas came to attend the school, and its students were primarily the children of local white settlers. Yet the academy remained the missionary’s one enduring accomplishment when, a few years after his death, it was transformed into Hamilton College.

The new institution of higher learning was chartered [by the State of New York] in 1812. (quoted from the website)

Starting out as a men’s college, Hamilton became fully coeducational in 1978. Today, it enrolls about 1,850 undergraduates only, split close to 50-50 between men and women. Just over 25 percent are U.S. students of color or international students. About 60 percent of students came from public high schools, while about 40 percent came from private high schools. Like Colgate, Hamilton has a desirable 9:1 student-to-faculty ratio. About 30 percent of classes have nine or fewer students—which seems really impressive, if small classes are something that your child would enjoy and thrive in.

Hamilton students pursue studies in 51 fields, based on a broad liberal arts and sciences curriculum that each student works out with his or her advisor. There are a few requirements—such as at least three writing-intensive courses—but there seems to be quite a bit of freedom in operationalizing the spirit of a liberal arts education.

All students live on campus in 27 residence halls, and many are likely kept busy on 29 varsity sports teams (given the size of the enrollment and the number of teams).

Like Colgate, about 85 percent of admitted students at Hamilton this fall ranked in the top tenth of their high school graduating class. They posted a trio of SAT subtest scores in the low 700s. Tuition and fees at Hamilton run about $49,500 per year—unfortunately, right in the private college ballpark.

Turning to Skidmore College, we have an institution that was started by Lucy Skidmore Scribner in 1903 as the Young Women’s Industrial Club, which, according to its constitution (as quoted on Skidmore’s website), “promoted ‘the cultivation of such knowledge and arts as may promote (members’) well-being, physical, mental, spiritual, and ability to become self-supporting.’ To this end, the Club offered courses in typewriting, bookkeeping, sewing and dressmaking, physical education, music and folk dancing.” And the website makes the following really good point:

Today we may snicker at the courses in sewing, shirtwaist making and millinery, but these were among the few fields in which women could manage businesses, and those courses were embedded in a broader context of creative expression and aesthetic appreciation. (quoted from the website)

In 1911, the institution was chartered as Skidmore School of Arts, a secondary school, and became Skidmore College in 1922. It became coeducational in 1971.

Today, Skidmore enrolls about 2,600 students, virtually all undergraduates (Skidmore appears to be closing its one master’s degree program).   Just over 20 percent of students are U.S. students of color, and about 10 percent are international students. Skidmore undergraduates are studying in more than 40 bachelor’s degree liberal arts and sciences majors, plus pre-professional studies in business, education, social work, and health and exercise sciences. Many students graduate with a double major. All of the arts—both for majors and non-majors—are also prominent on Skidmore’s campus.

Skidmore students enjoy the same appealing student-to-faculty ratio as the other colleges we have been talking about. They participate in 100 student organizations and 19 varsity sports teams.

Entering freshmen post average SAT subtest scores in the low to mid-600s, and about 45 percent were in the top tenth of their high school graduating class. Tuition and fees at Skidmore run about $49,000 per year—just like every place else.

Before we leave upstate, let’s turn the clock way back to 1795 when Union College became the first college chartered by the New York State Board of Regents. According to the website, “The name Union reflected the founders’ desire to create a welcoming, unified academic community open to all the diverse religious and national groups in the region.” That spirit did not, evidently, apply to women, who were not admitted until 1970. Union had the first unified campus plan, done by French architect Joseph Ramée in 1813. In the center of the grounds lies the distinctive round Nott Memorial building.

Union is proud of its history of re-conceiving the liberal arts:

When the classics were considered the only acceptable field of study, we introduced a bachelor’s degree with an emphasis on history, modern languages, science and mathematics. We were the first liberal arts college in the nation to offer engineering.(quoted from the website)

Like other colleges of its kind, Union has its Common Curriculum, which is required of students and gives students fundamental understandings and skills in a range of liberal arts disciplines, in fields that cross disciplines, and in thinking and research. Union students can then choose from about 45 majors (including about 20 interdisciplinary studies majors) or can create their own interdepartmental major.

Currently, Union enrolls about 2,200 undergraduates (no graduate students), with slightly more male than female students. That is about a 10:1 student-to-faculty ratio. It draws from 37 states and 29 countries—so not quite as far ranging as some other colleges we have looked at. Freshmen last year posted an average high school GPA of about a 3.4, and about 70 percent were in the top tenth of their high school graduating class. This year’s freshmen posted average SAT subtest scores in the mid- to high 600s (with scores higher in math than in critical reading and writing). However, submitting college admission test scores is optional for most students at Union (unless applicants have been homeschooled or are applying to some special programs). The website advises that applicants submit their scores if they are at or above the average scores of applicants, which the website provides. About two-thirds of applicants do submit scores.

Union offers students 100-plus student organizations, 20 fraternities and sororities, and 26 or so varsity sports teams. All first-year students and some upperclassmen live in Minerva Houses, which are all-purpose academic and social self-governed residences. Union charges a comprehensive fee (including tuition, room, and board) of about $62,000 per year (for three 10-week trimesters), with about $51,000 of that making up the tuition and fees we have been quoting for other colleges in our episodes.

Let’s turn now to the three colleges downstate: Vassar College in Poughkeepsie and Sarah Lawrence College in Yonkers, both originally women’s colleges, and Bard College in Annandale-on-Hudson.

Vassar College, founded in 1861, is located about 75 miles north of New York City in the beautiful Hudson Valley, which we spoke about in an earlier episode as the location of the State University of New York at New Paltz. It chose to become coeducational in 1969, after deciding not to merge with Yale University.

Vassar’s approximately 2,400 undergraduates—about 65 percent of whom come from public high schools—are about 35 percent students of color and about 10 percent international students. They choose from a broad range of about 50 liberal arts and sciences majors. Interestingly, Vassar has a longstanding commitment to teaching from original source materials, including a rare book collection, manuscripts, and the personal papers of noted scholars and writers. It also has a longstanding commitment to art; it was the first college to have a museum, which actually is older than New York City’s world-renowned Metropolitan Museum of Art.

About 98 percent of students live on campus, taking part in over 100 student organizations and 23 varsity sports teams. About 70 percent of faculty also live on or near the campus, with one or two faculty families living in each residence hall. So there are ways for students to develop relationships with faculty members—in addition to the very low 8:1 student-to-faculty ratio.

Vassar requires either the SAT plus two SAT Subject Tests (in different subjects) or the ACT plus the writing exam. This fall’s freshmen had average SAT subtest scores in the low 700s and an A– (unweighted) high school GPA. About 70 percent of them graduated in the top tenth of their high school class. Tuition and fees run about $51,000 a year.

Founded in 1860, Bard College is located on the Hudson River about 90 miles north of New York City—yet another college in our lovely Hudson River Valley. Some people know Bard for its slightly wild-looking Fisher Center for the Performing Arts, designed by famed architect Frank Gehry. Bard also is noted for its strong commitment to Early College high school programs, running high schools in New York and other states, which enroll almost 1,000 students.

Today, Bard serves about 2,000 undergraduates and about 200 graduate students. About 25 percent are international students. The undergraduate student-to-faculty ratio is 10:1, with courses taught by full faculty members. Bard also offers 15 graduate degree programs at U.S. and international locations, including at the main campus.

“The Love of Learning,” a piece by Bard President Leon Botstein that can be found on the website, addresses the question of what college is for and what kinds of learning and teaching are important for colleges to preserve. You really should go read it because I cannot possibly do it justice. One of my favorite paragraphs is this:

No department wants to become a “service department” without its own majors, relegated to teaching skills and materials to students who are primarily interested in other subjects. It does not seem sufficiently dignified for the purpose of an English department, for example, to educate a literate physician. This is unfortunate. Academic departments often function as if they were merchants in a bazaar, hustling undergraduates to become majors. Administrations, in turn, measure success by counting heads in terms of enrollments that derive from majors: the more majors, the more successful the department. This pattern even spills down to the college applicant, who is asked a ridiculous question: What would you like to major in? (quoted from the website)

In the interest of providing a truly liberal arts curriculum, Bard has a common curriculum for first-year students, an elaborate set of distribution requirements (I say this with obvious approval), and the intriguing idea of Moderation—a process whereby three professors judge a student’s two specific thoughtful written papers before deciding whether the student can move up from the Lower College to the Upper College after two years of study. Undergraduates at Bard can earn a bachelor’s degree in one of 35 fields.

In addition to its innovative curriculum, Bard offers its students about 100 student organizations and 18 varsity sports teams. Bard’s new freshmen come from 34 states and 20 foreign countries—about half from the New England and Mid-Atlantic states. Their average SAT critical reading and math scores were in the low to mid-600s, and about 50 percent graduated in the top tenth of their high school class. Tuition and fees are about $50,000 per year.

Founded in 1926 (the latest of this group we have looked at), Sarah Lawrence College today enrolls about 1,350 undergraduate students and about 350 graduate students. The undergraduates are about 70 percent female and 25 percent students of color. Sarah Lawrence, which began as Sarah Lawrence College for Women and was named for the wife of its benefactor, first admitted men under the G.I. Bill in 1946 and became fully coeducational in 1968.

Sarah Lawrence offers a unique undergraduate curriculum approach. For example, this is what the website says about its signature seminar-conference courses:

At Sarah Lawrence, 90 percent of classes are small, round-table seminars—all taught directly by faculty.

Every semester, for each of your seminar classes, you will complete conference work: an in-depth, individual project developed in collaboration with faculty during bi-weekly, one-on-one meetings. Each conference project is an opportunity for you to demonstrate your subject mastery by creating original work that builds upon the course in ways that you—and only you—can imagine.

Your conference work may be an academic research paper, a piece of creative writing, a staged reading,
 a scientific inquiry, or fieldwork. Conference work at Sarah Lawrence reflects your passions, interests, and aspirations, so projects take many forms and directions. (quoted from the website)

Students work with their don, or faculty advisor, from the beginning of their four years to create a course of study unique to them. Students major in one or more than one of almost 50 disciplines and take courses in three of four broad liberal arts and sciences areas of study. Student assessment includes an evaluation of critical abilities, detailed narrative evaluations, and traditional letter grades. Sarah Lawrence fields 16 varsity sports teams, known as the Gryphons (that is, part eagle, part lion, for those of you who don’t know).

Sarah Lawrence is also a test-optional college, with about 60 percent of students submitting college admission test scores. The average high school GPA of this fall’s freshmen is about a 3.6. Tuition and fees come in at about $51,000 per year.

2. Institutions with a Special Academic Focus

As we seem to have done fairly often in our virtual tour, let’s look at both arts and technology institutions.

Starting in New York City, let’s take a quick look first at a famous institution devoted to the arts: The Julliard School, located at Lincoln Center in Manhattan. Juilliard started as a music academy in 1905, then added a Dance Division in 1951, and finally added a Drama Division (for training both actors and playwrights) in 1968. We won’t say much about Juilliard, because you have to be impossibly talented to get in; but, if you have an impossibly talented child in music, dance, or drama, then you should certainly take a look. For example, the Actor Training Program accepts only 8 to 10 undergraduates and 8 to 10 graduate students each year; these students then move through a required four-year acting curriculum together as a group.

Interestingly, even though Juilliard awards its bachelor’s degrees in fine arts and in music (offering 14 different music majors), it requires its students to take at least 24 credits in the liberal arts, all taught in small seminar classes:

Juilliard actively promotes a liberal arts education that provides the humanistic, ethical, social, critical, and aesthetic background essential to personal development and professional excellence. Studies in literature, philosophy, history, social sciences, arts, and languages, foster in students a deeper understanding of themselves and the complex world in which they live. . . . Through their work in the Liberal Arts, students refine skills in reading, writing, speaking, and critical thinking, learning to communicate with greater clarity and effectiveness. This program equips them to become active, well-informed citizens; develops their awareness of the social and humanistic dimensions of professional work; and lays the basis for a fulfilling cultural and intellectual life. (quoted from the website)

Juilliard does not require college admission test scores (except for homeschooled students), but does require auditions, of course. Tuition runs about $40,000 per year, and room and board costs at Juilliard are about $15,000 to $18,000 per year. These are certainly high, but actually not so high as other top-tier New York City institutions.

Let’s also look at Pratt Institute, which is located in Brooklyn and is a bit more realistic option, though this time mainly for artistically talented students. Founded in 1887, today Pratt serves about 3,000 undergraduates (about 70 percent female and about 70 percent from outside New York State) and 1,500 graduate students, drawn internationally.

Undergraduates can pursue degrees in architecture, construction management, fine arts, photography, digital arts, graphic design, industrial design, fashion design, interior design, but also film, writing, the history of art and design, and more. The student-to-faculty ratio is 10:1.

First-year students take two Survey of Art courses, two English courses, and the Foundation Core, which is, according to the website, “a series of studio experiences that deal with the analysis of problems in perception, conception, and imagination. The studio work encompasses both 2- and 3-D forms in their optical, technical, and symbolic natures. In addition, students receive an introduction to 4-D time arts through the use of computers and other media. At one point, students may deal with specifically designed structural problems and at another point may examine these problems from expressive, social, and historical perspectives. Through this process, individual imagination, skill, ambition, and preferences are examined.” That sounds both impressive and difficult.

Pratt fields 10 varsity sports teams—though, as we have said for some other great institutions, I don’t think you go to Pratt for the athletics.

Incoming freshmen bring average SAT subtest scores in the very high 500s and an average high school GPA of about a 3.6. All majors, except construction management, require a visual or writing portfolio as part of the application process. Tuition and fees run about $45,000 per year.

Moving upstate now, let’s take a look at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in Troy (which is close to Albany).

RPI, founded in 1824, claims to be the oldest technological research university in the U.S. It offers bachelor’s, master’s, and doctoral degrees and comprises five schools: Engineering; Science; Architecture; Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences; and the Lally School of Management. RPI also offers bachelor’s and master’s degrees in Information Technology and Web Science. Perhaps the most surprising majors of the 38 undergraduate majors that RPI offers are in psychology and philosophy—both through the Cognitive Science Department (which is devoted to “the scientific study of the mind, brain, and intelligence”). RPI also encourages interdisciplinary study across departments and schools.

RPI’s key research topics are biotechnology and the life sciences; energy and the environment; computational science and engineering; nanotechnology and advanced materials; and media, arts, science, and technology. Its mission, as stated when it was founded, is in “the application of science to the common purposes of life” (quoted from the website).

Today, RPI enrolls about 5,500 undergraduates (about 70 percent male) and almost 1,500 graduate students. Larger than the other institutions we have talked about in this episode, its student-to-faculty ratio is 15:1. RPI also fields 23 varsity sports teams.

I first learned about RPI’s president some years ago when we were doing a project for RPI, and I have to tell you that Shirley Ann Jackson is an impressive person. Here is a bit of her profile from the website:

A theoretical physicist, Dr. Jackson has had a distinguished career that includes senior leadership positions in academia, government, industry, and research. She holds an S.B. in Physics, and a Ph.D. in Theoretical Elementary Particle Physics–both from MIT. She is the first African-American woman to receive a doctorate from MIT—in any field—and has been a trailblazer throughout her career, including as the first African-American woman to lead a top-ranked research university. (quoted from the website)

Last year’s freshman class posted average SAT subtest scores at just about 700, with an average high school GPA of almost a 3.8. About 70 percent finished in the top tenth of their high school graduating class. Tuition and fees run about $49,500.

By the way, you might also want to check out the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT), if you have a child interested in technical fields of study.

3. Winding Up New York State and Our Virtual Tour

It might be hard for us to leave New York State, but I feel we must. There are plenty of other higher education institutions we have not discussed, any one of which might be right for your child. I could name Clarkson University, St. Lawrence University, Pace University, Manhattan College, Molloy College, Ithaca College, St. John’s University, Yeshiva University, The Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art, Hobart and William Smith Colleges, and more. It’s just as the song says, “I love New York.”

It is even harder for us to end our virtual tour. We have learned a lot about a lot of colleges—some we had known quite well, and some we had not known at all. We hope you learned just as much and that what you learned will prove useful to your child’s search for the perfect college for him or her.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • What about our colleagues at The American University in Paris? We are hoping for a safe recovery for all of you.
  • What about Molloy College?
  • What about Manhattan College?

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In New York State

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Episode 7: Focus on New York

We’re continuing our series on understanding the world of college this week by focusing on the many wonderful opportunities right here in New York! Episode show notes are available at http://usacollegechat.org/7

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We’re continuing our series on understanding the world of college this week by focusing on the many wonderful opportunities right here in New York!

NYCollegeChat is now available on iTunes, Spreaker, Stitcher, and TuneIn!

NYCollegeChat episode 7 focuses on colleges and universities in New York State

1. Starting with New York City

For many students from around the world, New York City is the place to be. It is huge and exciting and trendy and diverse. It offers something for everyone: well-known private universities (like New York University), great medical schools and law schools and fine arts schools and business schools, a famous Ivy League university (Columbia) and two graduate campuses of a second Ivy League university (Cornell), Catholic and Jewish colleges and universities (like Fordham University, St. John’s UniversityManhattan CollegeYeshiva University, and Touro College and University System), proprietary schools, and an extraordinary public City University of New York (CUNY) with a total of 24 two-year and four-year and graduate campuses serving over a quarter of a million degree students.

Almost any student already living in New York City or moving to New York City can find an appropriate type of institution for postsecondary study, which will offer whatever major course of study a student can imagine. Because so many students nationwide go to college close to home, New York City high school students are particularly fortunate to live in a city where so many options are at their fingertips.

The CUNY colleges are public and, therefore, relatively inexpensive for New York City residents and qualified New York State residents who are commuting to a campus—from about $4,500 in tuition for a two-year CUNY campus to about $6,000 in tuition for a four-year CUNY campus. Some of the private universities in New York City will cost a student $60,000 a year for tuition and dormitory living, though many families believe those universities are worth it.

2. Looking at New York State

Looking outside New York City, New York State offers an even bigger array of collegiate institutions: two of the five U.S. military service academies (West Point and the Merchant Marine Academy), another Ivy League university (Cornell), highly regarded private colleges and universities (like Hamilton College, Skidmore College, the University of Rochester, and Syracuse University), well-respected specialized technology institutes (like Rochester Institute of Technology and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute), proprietary schools, Catholic institutions, and an impressive public State University of New York (SUNY) with a total of 64 two-year and four-year and graduate campuses serving almost half a million degree students.

Almost any student already living in New York State or moving to New York State can find an appropriate type of institution for college study, which will offer whatever major course of study a student can imagine. Few states can compare when it comes to what New York State has to offer.

When it comes to a good financial deal, SUNY campuses (like CUNY campuses in New York City) are a bargain. Stony Brook University, the SUNY campus on Long Island, was directed by the State Board of Regents in 1960 to become an institution that would “stand with the finest in the country.” Today, this full-fledged university, with a School of Medicine, has done just that, especially in the sciences. With tuition of just over $6,000 for New York State residents, it is an incredible bargain (out-of-state students pay almost $20,000 in tuition).

3. Weighing the Public Options

For families who need or want to take advantage of public higher education to keep costs down, the CUNY and SUNY systems offer almost anything a student could want—from a two-year technical or liberal arts degree to a four-year technical or liberal arts degree to a graduate degree in one of many fields, including medicine and law. Students can start out at a two-year CUNY or SUNY campus and transfer to a four-year CUNY or SUNY campus after that and then go on to a CUNY or SUNY graduate program, taking full advantage of one or both public education systems.

Listen to the podcast to find out about…

  • CUNY vs. SUNY
  • Dormitory living vs. commuting to campus, even in New York City
  • The pitfalls of working while a college student

Check out these higher education institutions we mention…

In New York State

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